Head Job ban appeal (Please review and inform me)

[JessieProudmore]

Your Byond Key:JessieProudmore

Your Character Name: Jessie Proudmore

Their Byond key: killjaden

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results):20:00 PM +2 Timezone. 1 December

Which Staff Protocols (http://www.colonial-marines.com/viewtop ... =57&t=5647) were broken: (The link is broken, so I am unsure) Really wish I could have had more light shed on the situation.

Description of the incident:Initially, the CL was reported by the CE to be bribing the CMO to refuse the treatment of an "Infected" (Crabbed) individual. Upon my arrival, I had seen the pile of cash on the ground and told the CL to get on the ground. Admittedly at the time, I was unsure what to charge with this specific time so I had missed the window of opportunity to follow the standard operating procedure.

Some time passed, I did not receive any admin messages until it was about when I had arrested the CL and left them in a standard cell while deciding what to do with them. Having presented the CO with the events, he assured me that whatever I charge them with would be suitable. Given the events and how much time they may have had to perform whatever amount of bribes it was, I had charged them with Murder or Unauthorised execution. I chose this crime because it seemed fitting with the attempts or successes at stopping the treatment of these few or one marine(s)

I later found one of the MPs that were originally against him, want to help him by removing the straight jacket that was not applied by me. I suspected bribery, obviously. And ordered the MP out so I could question them. During this, I was trying to make sure my actions were valid, I had adminhelped a few times to ensure what I was doing was fine. This was before the pepperspraying and just after. This was my attempt to get the answer from him to see if he did in fact bribe my MP with any form of cash or other.

After this, USCM high command had apparently organised for my arrest, and I was jobb banned just before this. Now on my way to cryo in a fit of salt with the roll, I was stopped by an SG to the hangar but this holds little value to the argument. I went to cryo, and when climbed in, we had exchanged the last two messages in Adminhelp before I was banned for 30 minutes DESPITE already being in a cryo cell and ready to ghost.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):( I am unfortunately missing the beginning since my ss13 crashed.) ("Sorry, attatchment quota is already met") Is there another way to send these?



How you would punish the accused: I wouldn't know, truthfully. I may even blame myself for not properly reviewing marine law to its fullest. My fault for using common knowledge. (If this is my fault, please inform me on how a situation like this should have been handled)

[RobBrown4PM]

I was the MP in question that you said "want to help him by removing the straight jacket that was not applied by me"

I told you specifically that I had talked to the CL during his imprisonment about the security records we found in his office. I also asked you if I could remove his straight jacket as he seemed relatively calm during my conversation with him. He had been straight jacketed because he was self harming and it had been some time since he had been in it. Instead of rationally looking at the situation you immediately jumped to "You must have been bribed". What I got from this was you were trying to seek out a reason to beat the CL's face in.

IIRC, Ajax and and the Japanese MP (Forget their name, Juro perhaps?) were present when I was speaking with the CL.

[JessieProudmore]

I would have had no way of knowing, given neither of you seemed willing to talk about the events in my absence.

[RobBrown4PM]

I would have had no way of knowing, given neither of you seemed willing to talk about the events in my absence.

You mean other than trusting the MP under your command who is a sworn in Military Police Officer of the USCM who, as far as you know, has no reason to lie to you about a prisoner. Was there anything that I did prior that would make you think that I:

A) IC, was conspiring with a prisoner

B) was OOC breaking Marine Law, and thus a rule as I was an MP, by breaking the following crimes: Failure to Follow Procedure, Disorderly Conduct, Neglect of duty, and of course, Aiding, abetting and or conspiring.

[JessieProudmore]

This is based solely on the actions of the CL. You should understand that this was attempted on the CMO and only reported by the CE.

I see no reason why they would not have tried this with you, since suspicions are a thing.

What really got me upset, is that I tried to get what I was doing reviewed by the staff member so I can improve in future. These two or three mistakes was enough to get me a permanent MP job ban and CMP job ban until I make an appeal.

[GenericUsername]

Ok I was the XO this round and was left in charge of CIC after the CO headed down.

The CL had tried to bribe the CMO into giving them a stasis bagged infected marine, he pretended to use a signed affidavit to get out of jail. Of course, this didn't stick.

However, the CMP said they were charging them with murder or something else.... pretty sure it wasn't an actual law ingame. I also noticed the CL was kept untimed in a cell for a long time.

I decided, then, that it wouldn't be fair to brig the CL if he was being arrested improperly and not being judged according to marine law. In any case, I ordered a search of his office, as my IC motive was to find the original copy of the affidavit and burn it. The CMP told me, however, they already had burned the papers... from this point on it was clear to me that the CMP was breaking marine law; plus, when first arrested, the CL informed me that the CMP didn't follow arrest procedure, just tazed and cuffed him.

So I went to confront the CMP, told them to release the CL; if we had arrested him properly and applied a charge of sedition this all could have ended thirty minutes earlier, but since they decided to apply a false charge (inumerous times me and the CE told them he didn't murder anyone), it would be only fair to pardon the CL.

However, the CMP didn't agree, they kept talking about how the CL was compromising marine lives and such... to which I responded that, by being CMP, she shouldn't be biased and apply the law to whoever she wanted to. She didn't care. Shortly after, I told her we couldn't execute him since she falsely arrested him and was breaching the law. She responded something like "Wanna see me execute him?", then rushed to the announcement console, clearly preparing to announce the execution.

Despite my orders and attempts to grab her, she didn't want to leave the CIC dome and at one point even wanted to arrest me; luckly the CE turned off the APC. We had a long discussion and we managed to get her off the dome. At this time, the CL was in permabrig and the CMP was ignoring my orders, even though by rank she should follow any non-law related orders. She also claimed she didn't need CO approval and that the CO had approved her to judge anyone as she pleased, which doesn't give her authorization to execute anyone.

After that, I faxed HC after ahelping to grimcad that I needed a IC HC response and got orders to arrest her. In the meanwhile, a colonial marshall that was employed as MP by the CO told me the CMP was pepperspraying the CL in their cell. When the MPs (Roberto and Juro I believe) went to arrest her she was on cryo.

Clearly, the player doesn't understand how the law works or what the CMP's duty is. The job ban is completely justified.

[Killjaden]

Heyo, I did receive an Ahelp from the CL once you arrested them. Sure the CL didn't mention any bribing and such in their Ahelp. But after investigation I got that out and did tell you that arresting them was Alright. As they were bribing the CMO to get that infected Marine with them, instead of getting that marine treated.

However, Later on I got informed that you didn't follow Standard Procedure at all. So I investigated once more, pulled up the logs and did find out that you didn't follow Standard Procedure. I told you about it, And asked you to read the guide once more.

Later one I get notified that the CL was charged with Murder , and apparently Possession of drugs? Or drug use. I honestly can't remember which but it was definitely something with drugs. So all false charges at all. The CL did not murder anyone, nor did he cause the death of somebody. So it was definitely breaking marine law what you did.

And while I was looking into that, I get an Ahelp about you pepperspraying the CL. Much earlier I received an Ahelp about you beating the Cl. Which turned out to be a normal stun baton and removing handcuffing.
Though this time it was pepperspraying the CL to interogate him about the apparent bribery of one of the MP's.

Due to all that combined, I did job ban you from CMP and MP and told you to appeal it if you want. You had shown no interest in the PM's however.
I do apologize for the short ban. I was about to ban you for thirty minutes to get the Job ban applied properly, I didn't notice that you headed into Cryo. That short ban was only to get you to calm down and get the job ban in.

Nonetheless, That Job ban was definitely justified. You did break marine law several times. Didn't follow Standard Procedure.

[JessieProudmore]

That doesn't explain why my requests to review my actions on multiple occasions wasn't responded to and resulted in a "Carry on"

[Killjaden]

That doesn't explain why my requests to review my actions on multiple occasions wasn't responded to and resulted in a "Carry on"

I am sorry that I did not see it, I was very busy the entire round. Had to handle the CMO , CL and you at the same time. I may have not seen your ahelp to be honest.
But on the other hand, You should know marine law as CMP and should know that torture is not a thing you should be doing there.

[JessieProudmore]

For reference, which portion of marine law prevents none injury causing methods of gaining information. If something is there that I missed, I will remove this entire thing, if there isn't such a thing, I cannot be blamed for not knowing this.

Seems I will be punished (Already am) for trying to get some sort of help.

[Killjaden]

For reference, which portion of marine law prevents none injury causing methods of gaining information. If something is there that I missed, I will remove this entire thing, if there isn't such a thing, I cannot be blamed for not knowing this.

wiki/Marine_Law#Prisoner_Rights

Protection and Medical Treatment
All prisoners must be kept safe and unharmed, to this end as long as there are prisoners in the brig, an MP or the Chief MP must remain in the brig at all times. Treatment should take place inside the brig when possible. If not, an MP must escort the prisoner to the infirmary and watch over them at all times while they are treated. Self-harm may result in being straitjacketed for the duration of the sentence.

[JessieProudmore]

I don't see any point that I had given any form of harm to them that can be considered brute, burn or toxins. Given pepperspray is a none-lethal stun.

If I tortured them by say, roleplaying the removal of their teeth, I'd be more understanding about this situation. But you being so unforgiving despite my attempts to receive some amount of help from the online staff at the time, makes me quite disappointed in what would be the worst round I have ever had in my ss13 history. This is also my first ever ban I have ever had on any server.

[Killjaden]

I don't see any point that I had given any form of harm to them that can be considered brute, burn or toxins. Given pepperspray is a none-lethal stun.

If I tortured them by say, roleplaying the removal of their teeth, I'd be more understanding about this situation. But you being so unforgiving despite my attempts to receive some amount of help from the online staff at the time, makes me quite disappointed in what would be the worst round I have ever had in my ss13 history. This is also my first ever ban I have ever had on any server.

Game mechanic wise, Yes sure you did not apply brute, burn, Toxin nor Oxygen damage.
However, You still harmed the prisoner. Put them in pain to interogate them. Pepperspraying someone is painful as fuck. I can tell by personal experience.
That round was also a pain in the ass for the CL and XO, as they did have to deal with all this too.
You did say that the CO apparently gave you free choice in applying whatever charge you want.
You did even say that the CMP, CO or XO can authorize an execution and you wouldn't need the XO's authorization whatsoever.
Already showing that you don't understand how CMP works and what their duty really is so far.

I am currently just waiting for some Moderator to post logs right now.
I've been logdiving myself the last past hour to pull everything important but I want another Moderator to check to get an unbiased view on it.

[JessieProudmore]

You can review the logs, the CO did in fact say I could apply any charge I saw fit.

[Killjaden]

You can review the logs, the CO did in fact say I could apply any charge I saw fit.

Yes he did, However, Even the Captain or XO are not above the law. No, Not even the CMP is above the law. You can't apply false charges to someone just because the CO told you you can apply any charge you see fit.
You can't execute people by your own authorization either. Which you claimed you could IC'ly.

I agree that I did not see your request Ahelp. That's on me. But the Job ban is definitely justified.

The reason why I decided to apply a Job ban for CMP and MP is quite simple.
You did not follow Standard Procedure while arresting/detaining the CL
IC'ly claiming that you did though. Showing that you don't really know the procedure.
You did apply false charges, like murder and "unauthorised execution".
You did search the CL office and found "Loyalty implants", which for some reason you acted like they are totally illegal and contraband. Saying an execution is in order...
You did say that the CO already gave you approval for the Execution by saying that you may charge them with whatever you feel necessary. And once more I come back to my first point.
If it wasn't for the XO the CL probably would'Ve been executed.
You did say that an Execution can be ordered by you, CO or XO. Not all three or two. Which again is wrong. The Captain must approve and authorize the execution.
You burned documents of the Cl that may have been evidence, Tampering with Evidence.
And you broke Prisoner rights by harming the CL. There might be something I forgot.

But it's all in the logs that a moderator just has to read over and post for me.

[JessieProudmore]

I did not claim the implants were illegal. I did ask the CO, and said we would discuss it when they returned from being groundside.

[Sulaboy]

This is a staff report, not a Job Ban appeal right?

http://www.cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647
This link should work. Please explain which protocols you think the staff member broke.

If you are not reporting the staff member for their actions it would have been easier to appeal the job ban instead

[JessieProudmore]

Since I am fairly unfamiliar, I have placed the Job ban appeal here with the suspicion of possible mistakes the staff member may have made. What I believe they could have done better will be listed below:

4. Investigate the player’s history
a. Check the player's notes. If they frequently break the same rule, then the punishment may need to be more serious. If they haven't had a new note or violation for a few months, it would probably be best to give them a more minor punishment.

2. Investigate the situation
a. Contact anyone involved and get their side of the story. Also, check logs. It may not be immediately visible WHO caused the situation, and you may need to talk to several people to figure it out. Try to do this as quickly and efficiently. (Given the Ahelps were looked over by them and the other staff when I has asked if I did anything wrong, just after they were placed in the cell without what I missed specifically except for the vague "You did not follow operating procedure")

5. Determine the punishment.
a. Determine the bare minimum punishment. There's no reason to jump straight to a ban,(They said they never knew I was in cryo, which is acceptable, but I already had the IC request of an arrest from HC supposedly) especially if the incident didn't cause a major disruption to the game. Try to use warnings, and if you do need to ban don't be excessive. Most bans should not be above 12 hours.

[forest2001]

It would have been wiser to make it in the appeal section as any issues regarding staff error can either be pursued afterwards or may get resolved in the conclusion of your appeal.

I was the Chief Engineer for the round and I am the one that got Jessie involved in the first place. And I was contacted by Killjaden regarding the CL incident as part of the investigation.

Jessie, you are a good CMP judging by rounds I have played with you before, but this time you overstepped and broke procedures. Had you complied with the XO to release the CL after the discovery of the break in procedure, you may well have avoided your job ban. As it stands due to the numerous breaches demonstrated;

- Untimed incarceration
- An invalid charge (Murder when no one died, had the marine burst it would have been applicable. You argued he could have killed others by his actions but we don’t know, I had already given clear outlines as to the situation start to finish)
- Insub by refusing to follow orders (Sketchy due to it being a legal matter and only the CO being above you given that the CO didn’t really help the issue)
- Breaking the law by burning the CLa files
- You attempted to authorise execution by yourself when it is clearly stated the CO must order it or the CMP and XO combined must approve.

I suggest making an appeal in the appeals section and have it resolved there.

[freemysoul]

Jobban Appeal: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=19375 - Currently locked until judgement is passed on the staff report and validity of the report is confirmed.

[Imperator_Titan]

Having reviewed the logs, I can 100% say that you were in the wrong. Using an excuse such as, "For reference, which portion of marine law prevents none injury causing methods of gaining information. If something is there that I missed, I will remove this entire thing, if there isn't such a thing, I cannot be blamed for not knowing this." to justify using a blatant marine law break is one easy way to land yourself a jobban. It's literally common sense that you shouldn't be torturing prisoners to 'extract information'. The moderator in question was absolutely justified in applying a jobban and you're lucky that he left it at that.

Resolved - No action will be taken.