Why are councils disliked?

[Enigmachine]

This came up in a thread I made.

Why are councils disliked so strongly by some people? I was not aware that that was a thing.

[Build_R_]

I like councils and I honestly haven't seen anybody here who dislikes councils. People on councils I may dislike but I'm completely fine with councils themselves as long as it isn't filled to the brim with egomaniacs/powertrippers.

[Enigmachine]

When I asked why councils are disliked I was referring to councils as a concept. That was what I got the impression that people had an issue with. For some reason.

[Sleepy Retard]

dunno lol

[Build_R_]

I was talking about councils as a concept. Would there be a better alternative to a council anyways?

[Clutch]

councils arent disliked at all from what i've gathered, they're rather useless because all input they give gets blown off by senior admins who think they know it better

[Solarmare]

I don't even know what you mean by that because we don't even get input from them, and they decide on the whitelist reports.
Most I could do is just give my own opinion on whitelisted roles and make suggestions like any other could.

[Enigmachine]

It would seem that the playerbase may not understand what the councils do.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Not that councils are disliked.

I can tell you my only beef is there are certain council members without naming names that have real life issues and I wish they had stepped down to give someone else a shot.
Then you have council members who have to be prodded and told to do their jobs to vote on whitelist applications.

[KennyTGuy]

Their job involves denying you something you want and the negativity bias is real, I wish theyd be more chill on feedback but thats all.

[solidfury7]

I don't dislike them but I do think theyre irrelevant.

[FGRSentinel]

If you're talking about your suggestion to have MPs be a whitelisted role with its own council, it's probably because it puts people into a position to decide the kind of person who gets to be whitelisted, which gives them some degree of influence over what the role becomes. The general reason why people would be against this (besides the fact that adding a new whitelist to a role is work for the staff) is that if it's a role where a lot of people who play it aren't looked at too kindly you're more likely to have the council filled with people you don't want in that kind of position than you are to end up with people who can actually do good with the job.

[Sleepy Retard]

I don't dislike them but I do think theyre irrelevant.

The problem is without dedicated people to do this, we have shitty whitelisting - otherwise it would take months upon months. I'd say the Synthetic whitelist is the best it has ever been, without Feweh it took months to get an acceptance, and with the senior system they didn't care - they didn't do shit at all, and with this, this is the best system we've gotten.

We can handle reports quicker, and do applications. Any other system has been tried, and it fails horribly.

[Jakkkk]

I can't think of anyone who sincerely dislikes the council system, and if they do then nothing works for them.

[Enigmachine]

If you're talking about your suggestion to have MPs be a whitelisted role with its own council, it's probably because it puts people into a position to decide the kind of person who gets to be whitelisted, which gives them some degree of influence over what the role becomes. The general reason why people would be against this (besides the fact that adding a new whitelist to a role is work for the staff) is that if it's a role where a lot of people who play it aren't looked at too kindly you're more likely to have the council filled with people you don't want in that kind of position than you are to end up with people who can actually do good with the job.

I am not talking talking about a hypothetical MP one. In that thread, though, a bunch of people basically said, "councils are cancer and AIDS," which I didn't get at all thus this thread.

[Renomaki]

I don't think it is so much that councils are disliked, moreso that people feel that councils don't really accomplish much.

When people first suggested the idea of forming councils made up of experienced players in certain areas (such as Predators), they made it out to be this thing that helps to streamline certain elements and make processes move faster, since instead of having to bother higher ranking staff to review things, you'd just have the council gather together and discuss matters, such as if a pred app is worthy or if a CO needs to get banned for poor display of leadership and responsibility.

But, being people with lives outside of a game, this naturally doesn't work out as simply as one would imagine. Apps still take time due to member's laziness or personal issues, biases can be formed towards certain players and giving them advantages or disadvantages instead of being a neutral party who judges on equal ground, and of course it just creates more hassle having more hoops to jump through.

Sure, it is probably better to have a group of people deciding things instead of a singular force that could risk going mad with power (coughcoughFewehcough), but still, I wonder if Councils really did fix anything, or are just another gimmick to make the community seem more deep and complex?

[Frans_Feiffer]

I don't think it is so much that councils are disliked, moreso that people feel that councils don't really accomplish much.

When people first suggested the idea of forming councils made up of experienced players in certain areas (such as Predators), they made it out to be this thing that helps to streamline certain elements and make processes move faster, since instead of having to bother higher ranking staff to review things, you'd just have the council gather together and discuss matters, such as if a pred app is worthy or if a CO needs to get banned for poor display of leadership and responsibility.

But, being people with lives outside of a game, this naturally doesn't work out as simply as one would imagine. Apps still take time due to member's laziness or personal issues, biases can be formed towards certain players and giving them advantages or disadvantages instead of being a neutral party who judges on equal ground, and of course it just creates more hassle having more hoops to jump through.

Sure, it is probably better to have a group of people deciding things instead of a singular force that could risk going mad with power (coughcoughFewehcough), but still, I wonder if Councils really did fix anything, or are just another gimmick to make the community seem more deep and complex?

To be fair, There is concrete evidence to show the councils do work. The Synth whitelist is cleaner then i’ve ever seen in my time here, and so too is that the case with the Preds. As for my own whitelist, they’ve been closed since i’ve been apart of it, and it’ll be a bit longer until they do open, but I know for a fact the same pattern will occur. There’s even been apps accepted quick, like Sleepy’s and Kavlos which only took 2 day’s. Yes, there are problems with it, such as lazy members, or those wth life issues, however even still there has, at least in my opinion been a noticeable improvement in how apps are accepted/denied and the speed of which they are. I think it’s the best system we’ve had yet, and I hope with new people being added with every term, that it continues to be just that.

[BobatNight]

Staff doesn't seem to care about council input and goes ahead with certain updates that were highly resisted by nearly everyone in that whitelisted role.

If you weren't voted to the council, you aren't on the council.

[Build_R_]

If you weren't voted to the council, you aren't on the council.

That is one aspect of the council that I do dislike actually, I don't think a council position shouldn't be permanent with the same views constantly. I think it would be better to have a steady flow of people in and out of the positions ever couple of months or so, or perhaps make some new positions that commanders can flow in/out of.

[BobatNight]

That is one aspect of the council that I do dislike actually, I don't think a council position shouldn't be permanent with the same views constantly. I think it would be better to have a steady flow of people in and out of the positions ever couple of months or so, or perhaps make some new positions that commanders can flow in/out of.
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Councils are still in their early days, the reason they were voted to Council by players is because they're trusted by their peers to make decisions for that role. Not staff members who lost the election.

[MattAtlas]

That is one aspect of the council that I do dislike actually, I don't think a council position shouldn't be permanent with the same views constantly. I think it would be better to have a steady flow of people in and out of the positions ever couple of months or so, or perhaps make some new positions that commanders can flow in/out of.

ok but this isnt the case, next term is in 3 weeks and all the councils will get revoted

[Build_R_]

ok but this isnt the case, next term is in 3 weeks and all the councils will get revoted

Oh I hadn't heard about that, my bad. How long is a term?

[MattAtlas]

Oh I hadn't heard about that, my bad. How long is a term?

about 4 months

[Avalanchee]

because there is MattAtlas in them

[Urytion]

I don't like councils for two reasons.

The first is that they tend to create self policing circlejerks. I don't think this has happened (yet), but I'd put money down on it happening within the next year.

The second is that ultimately, it doesn't matter. Admins and moderators make the rules.