"Hell on Sulaco, Atmos situation ban"

[cylian]

Beyond ID:cylian

Character name: Various

Admin who banned you: Various

Initial duration: 7 days

Duration remaining: Permanent

Reason for ban: Causing an ignition of the lower atmos on the Sulaco by having grenade experiments be griefed

Your appeal: including evidence:

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Since I have now had two bans been slapped down ontop of me now hours after unfortunate incidents occurring with no admins contacting me prior, giving me no chance to defend myself, I'm going to make a new appeal here since apop also suggested me to. People seemed very confused as to just what happened so I'm gonna separate these two incidents that occurred. Be warned, It's a long read:

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1. Incident one. Fire one, inside the Firing Hangar below deck on the Sulaco from an unknown grenade. Fire was contained to Firing hangar only thanks to airlocks.

This one REALLY surprised me. I am playing as a researcher for my first time and as all the actual researching has already been done by my colleagues, I decided to try and learn how to create grenades as large chem casings were just lying around. I start by following a few guides online, beginning to mix water and potassium for a small boom (using beakers instead of bottles to fill the casings, medical got pissed at me). I made the grenades and then wondered quite heavily If they actually worked so I set out on an adventure to go find a space to blow them up. I initially found a very optimal location in the tiny crew quarters room which absolutely no one used but after detonating a few, an unknown admin messaged me (This was a really long time ago) saying that I can't just blow these rooms up just because no one uses them and instead told me to do it on the firing range. "There's a firing range?" I thought and immediately went to find it in the mysterious area behind the dropship. I tried dozens of grenades here. Thermite smoke, welding fuel foam, iron + potassium + water (trying to create shrapnel versions) and I got no further complaints from the crew or the administrative staff (only the occassional 'what was that bang'). I decided I wanted to work on my thermite smoke because It would be a fantastic wall-remover for those marines stuck in the cave tunnels, I thought but I lacked a method for ignition. I scoured the chemistry page and eventually read a description saying "Creates a large fire immediately on mixing.. Perfect, I thought. Napalm, huh? I checked the server rules and could only find that Chloral Hydrate was banned, I even asked admins and they said "Anything goes but Chloral - http://puu.sh/jntnz/f790bebfa4.png " I went through the steps of learning that Phoron is actually Plasma and that you needed to grind it in a blender (made no sense to me then) but I did so, put the mixes into the grenades and hopped over to the firing range to test if it worked. I threw it in the corner of the room as far as I could as I noticed there was another guy at the range and ran back to the other side before it detonated. A wet sizzling splash was only heard and I let out a big sigh in frustration as the mix didn't seem to work.. But then, another guy opened the door to the firing range, quickly closed it and where the door was, everything suddenly EXPLODED into flames, the room being covered in it within moments and both me and the other guy was yelling for help as both our faces melted off (no kidding) and eventually, we died along with the flames being put out. As we got plenty of time to yell, help soon came and we both got cloned within 5-10 minutes of the accident and I learned to not fuck around with fire without having serious precautions. ---------- It was at this point I thought I was griefed due to the guy opening the door, doing something and then closing it quickly just to have flames appear and I told an admin this, just to later realize that It might have been my grenade (and I told the admin to I was talking about the potential griefer this: http://puu.sh/jntFM/9ae6212a7f.png). I was then banned 6 hours later with no admin saying a single word to me and so, I made my first "confusing ban appeal" which made the ban i got be lifted shortly after due to severe admin miscommunication.



2. Incident two. Fire two, initially contained inside the Firing Hangar below deck on the Sulaco from a minimalistic dose napalm grenade. Fire was initially contained but was purposefully let out by Nicholas Nash, a maintenance technician who decided to stay in the room, going against my repeated advice not to. -- http://puu.sh/jmr7K/4e7e61902f.png This one was the big one. The one mentioned in viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3067 Holy crap did things burn after an initially failed grenade that was laughed at. Holy crap the irony for that technician laughing at the initially failed first one which did nothing.

This one was arguably the version that I am at actually less at fault for. I'm a scientist trying to figure out how to create a SMALL incendiary grenade by using napalm (and I'd argue for that I was getting somewhere with as the first grenade did absolutely nothing while the second became the sun) and to test these grenade mixes, I needed to actually detonate them. Being scared off my balls from the first try (while at the same time not told by any admin to avoid testing these incendiary grenades), I went back to the Sulaco Firing Range, bringing with me serious precautions and welding the vent inside of there to not let the fire spread while also planning to weld the door and block it off with walls if necessary using steel plates I brought. I made a loud and clear announcement of grenade testing in the Firing range and as no one complained (admins included), I went ahead with it and got an unexpected eager viewer (Nash) that refused to leave the room when I told him to as 'shit could get whack'. I was fairly confident that these lower doses wouldn't do anything though, so I went ahead with the testing with him inside (knowing that I could weld the door shut if things took a turn for the worse). First grenade, did absolutely nothing. Like a wet fart in the wind, and It got laughed at pretty extensively with Nash throwing himself on the floor, faking his death. Second one.. Not so similar. It lit up the entire firing range within seconds and as I pulled my welder to seal the door, Nash forced it open and pushed me into the air vacuum, making me fall over and get crippled due to the flames before dying while he ran across the hangar and got himself to safety. I Immediately messaged the adminhelp, telling them that this was not my fault. After a good while, Felkivir messaged me and we had a good, long 30+ minute talk how the firing range is for guns only besides what another admin has told me and that detonating napalm mixed grenades on the Sulaco is a really bad idea. I defended myself naturally by saying that everything would have went fine If Nash didn't insist on griefing. He presumably checked the logs and told me that Nash is being handled and we continued to talk about how frail the atmos is on the Sulaco due to the map design being faulty here and there and he gave me an official warning about this before telling me to only test these kinds of grenades on the planet in the future. I agreed to do so after seeing and dying first-hand (and I alone dying) to what happens when napalm gets loose on the station and spent the next round ONLY doing research and the occasional potassium + water grenade mixes. After that round, I decided that being a researcher was a bit boring and an overall unfinished job on the Sulaco and decided to instead be the CMO the next round, setting up the FOB medical base and doing surgery on dozens of people before suddenly being banned in the middle of one hours later (making the patient die in the process no doubt with no message received from an admin beforehand) after the incident by apop with a message reading "Ignited atmos twice, enjoy the permaban".

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This is the full story that I can come up from the top of my head and glinting at the screenshot proof I have of it and some logs. I hope it explains a thing or two for some people while also showing that I actually never intended to grief anything, especially not the atmos which I still have little to no idea how It actually works and that I didn't try to piss on the faces of admins by creating the viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3067&p=27828 thread.

[Tetsip]

Here's the deal. You went mad science with this. You insisted on testing all of your very dangerous grenades on the Sulaco in areas that were unfit for testing. Additionally, when staff said 'anything but chloral goes' this kind of stuff is not what they meant. Incendiary grenades fuck with atmospherics and napalm was, to my knowledge, removed in the old code because of how dangerous, abused, and volatile it was.

Your first ban was lifted as a mistake that resulted from a lack of information in player notes. Not only this, but you performed this mad science with napalm yet again in the firing range knowing it would make the entire range unusable. Intentionally breaking atmospheres, whether it's contained or not or in a room that is often used or not, is against the rules with a minimum of 24 hours of ban-time. Whether or not someone breaks the containment and makes it worse is irrelevant, it all started with you creating incendiary grenades.

You knew from your first trial exactly how potent and dangerous those grenades were, but despite this you chose once again to test these monstrosities on the Sulaco and while the loss of containment wasn't your fault, at the very root of it, you should not have been making these grenades in the first place.

In the end it was Apop who brought the permabann down on you, so I believe he's the only one who can remove it.

[1138]

http://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1363

Rule 9. Do not touch or screw with the atmospherics, at all.

I believe you were fully aware the first time that your napalm grenade was extremely lethal, due to the insane level of temperature and pressure counts that it escalated to.

At which point, you repeated the usage of your formula for the next few rounds, in which we finally figured out that it was you who was handing out 'suicide grenades'. And consistent rule violation is no bueno.

Since I'm curious. Why didn't you open up DM to experiment, instead of coming onto an action roleplay server and thinking it's your personal playground?

[cylian]

Here's the deal. You went mad science with this. You insisted on testing all of your very dangerous grenades on the Sulaco in areas that were unfit for testing.

Please read the OP where I state that an admin told me grenade tests were to go there instead of crew quarters.

Additionally, when staff said 'anything but chloral goes' this kind of stuff is not what they meant.

That is an administrative issue and nothing I can be blamed for. The rules state clearly that anything an admin says goes.

Incendiary grenades fuck with atmospherics and napalm was, to my knowledge, removed in the old code because of how dangerous, abused, and volatile it was.

And now I know that.

Not only this, but you performed this mad science with napalm yet again in the firing range knowing it would make the entire range unusable.

This is simply not true. All I know is that It caused a fire, and the fire goes out. I did not have a clue that there was an actual atmosphere in the game with pressure and temperature prior to this.

You knew from your first trial exactly how potent and dangerous those grenades were, but despite this you chose once again to test these monstrosities on the Sulaco

As I mentioned, I tried minimalistic dosages of it. while welding the containment area shut before It was griefed. It is science gone awry from another player's interaction.

and while the loss of containment wasn't your fault, at the very root of it, you should not have been making these grenades in the first place.

I was not told after the first incident to stop doing so. Not even in the ban appeal forum topic I opened because for all I knew, someone pumped plasma into the vents as there was an actual other atmos griefer that blew up the supermatter & did other naughties was present during the time of the first incident.

In the end it was Apop who brought the permabann down on you, so I believe he's the only one who can remove it.

I know this, and he was the one who told me to make this appeal which I stated in the OP.

P.S: You are NOT supposed to post in ban appeal threads you are not involved in.

[cylian]

I believe you were fully aware the first time that your napalm grenade was extremely lethal, due to the insane level of temperature and pressure counts that it escalated to.

Then you haven't read the opening post fully and understood what was written.

you repeated the usage of your formula for the next few rounds, in which we finally figured out that it was you who was handing out 'suicide grenades'.

To be used if they were captured on the PLANET, not on the Sulaco, as can be seen by them being called SUICIDE grenades. I was also again, not even ONCE messaged by an admin about this being a problem. I even asked for a comment from an admin playing as an alien If they were any good or not.

Since I'm curious. Why didn't you open up DM to experiment, instead of coming onto an action roleplay server and thinking it's your personal playground?

What is DM? And as also stated in my OP, I stopped the moment I figured out what was really going on because I got zero help, information or notifications from the administrators, even when asking them so saying that I did any kind of personal playground is just bullcrap. I did my job as a researcher doing scientific studies about chemical reactions in an enclosed and secure environment.

P.S: You are NOT supposed to post in ban appeal threads you are not involved in.

[apophis775]

It seems to me, like he might not have been intending to grief.

I think what happend with the "wet splash" grenade, is that the room was covered in fuel everywhere, and the guy who walked in, was probably smoking.

From what I see in the posts, I don't think, it was his intent to light the sulaco on fire forever.

I believe, this might be a situation of "science gone wrong".

I will disable napalm tomorrow. And have another head-staff review this appeal.

[apophis775]

Also, staff are allowed to post in any Appeals.

[SASoperative]

I have reviewed this and I am very.... VERY.... Lenient as to rather I should allow a second chance for one major reason, You decided to make a Forums post about the issue thus pretty much begging for attention. I can not really think of many other reasons as to why you would other than for bragging rights or for hey look what I had happen. I would appreciate a reply to as to why that was even made before I debate on a second chance.

[Tetsip]

I was involved in this. I both witnessed and participated in the investigation of the second incident when it happened. The damage was catastrophic and the round became horrible for the Sulaco staff. Granted that's more of Nash's fault for spreading the fire. My issue with you is not WHAT you did it's how you behave. Instead of apologizing for what you did and explaining that you didn't think what was happening, you butt heads with the staff, argue, debate, and defend your position. You don't seem remorseful at the least for what you've done. That's all I was looking for in these last few days, a bit of remorse.

No, it's everyone's fault but your own. The only things you admit to being wrong is blowing up the firing range on the first incident and underestimating the mixture size on the second one. You're not sorry for the people who died and were victimized by these incidents and if you said you are, you keep shielding it behind 'but it's not entirely my fault's. You banter and argue with the staff, trying to blame OTHER STAFF for the most minimal mistakes in wording, saying that it's their fault you were allowed to do what you do.

Nothing is your fault. It's everyone else's fault and you even have the nerve to tell staff what to do and how to do it during the investigation itself and I WELCOME SAS and Apop to look at the chat logs from these incidents to prove this, but I feel this quote is enough to prove what I'm trying to say.

P.S: You are NOT supposed to post in ban appeal threads you are not involved in.

That is why I am very against your being allowed into the server again.

I know this is a heavy-handed way to put it, but my honest opinion and analysis here is that you're a very toxic player who is only on this server for himself and doesn't care whether he adds or takes away from the round for other players, as long as you have a good time.

TL;DR Player is not worthy of and has not earned redemption.

[Mordrehel]

As I said in the last thread, I don't think theres the smallest bit of a reason to have this ban lifted, if not for the actions in the rounds which were bad enough in themselves, for your attitude in these appeals.

What guarantee do we have that you'll respect the rules and the decisions of staff in the future if you think its reasonable for you to in giant glowing letters tell members of staff to not post in the appeal? You seriously lack decency and respect for other people and I must say everything Tetsip has said rings true. You're not the kind of person I think anyone would want to socialize with and I definitely think your toxic behavior is a detriment to other players as well as staff.

Lets take the other day right before Apop perma'd you again, I had to get onto you about a few RP rules and you seemed to have little regard for what I was saying and simply wanted me to go punish someone else who wasn't doing everything you wanted them to do when you were the CMO which I later found out when I was writing notes on your account you had already been warned for.

tl;dr I don't think you respect anyone and I think all your actions are inherently selfish, I do not want this kind of person around on the server.

[cylian]

I have reviewed this and I am very.... VERY.... Lenient as to rather I should allow a second chance for one major reason, You decided to make a Forums post about the issue thus pretty much begging for attention..

Begging for attention? I posted that for two major reasons:

1. Clarifying on what actually happened for admins to see, I even linked it to Felkivir as we were talking and which is why I also included a picture of the chat.

2. Giving people some relief following a series of major catastrophies on the sulaco that happened by ACCIDENT with my case and purposefully with the other atmos griefer at the time. I even explained this in a forum post in said topic you're talking about and I even replied to you specifically in there, which you apparently haven't bothered to read. Making such a thread also brings up the possible discussion (as it was posted in general discussions) if Napalm should be banned. Also, here is the reply I made:

.. No, I'm not bragging about grief. If you'd bothered to read the text given from both my forum post itself and the chat picture, the fire was caused by someone sabotaging a grenade experiment made.

[cylian]

My issue with you is not WHAT you did it's how you behave. Instead of apologizing for what you did and explaining that you didn't think what was happening

The entire reason as to why I have been trying to explain is that I have now received TWO bans that are admittedly very ill-informed due to admin miscommunication and they both have been applied to my person without conversation or warning. Not because I want to be a defensive asshole but the fact of the matter is that there has been a series of events that need thorough explanation as to why they happened and how they were dealt with. The first one was my fault for being misinformed, but that is not something you can exactly blame me for as said information came from the staff and I had little to no applicable guidelines to follow in your server rules.

you butt heads with the staff, argue, debate, and defend your position.

That is something you do when you make an appeal on a ban that was applied for apparent griefing when this has not been the case. Again. If i wanted to grief, these fires would not have only me as their victim in a secluded area of an otherwise active space-ship.

You don't seem remorseful at the least for what you've done. That's all I was looking for in these last few days, a bit of remorse.

I am sorry for what has happened and I have apparently not expressed this enough by referring to this to be an ACCIDENT. As to why this ACCIDENT occurred, It was for scientific reasons and because of a griefer.

No, it's everyone's fault but your own.

I have never stated this. All I have done is outlined the roads as to why I did A and why B happened. Of course this all boils down to me throwing really nasty unintentional anti-spaceship grenades in the firing range but the steps that happened for these accidents to occur were completely out of my control as I have been told "All mixes except chloral are allowed" by another admin.

The only things you admit to being wrong is blowing up the firing range on the first incident and underestimating the mixture size on the second one.

I did not underestimate the mixture size on the second incident. I took all the precautions I took to contain a situation that would mimic the first one if it would happen and that goes in the form of welding vents & doors & blocking off areas with steel plates but THE EXPERIMENT WAS GRIEFED BY ANOTHER PLAYER. And prior to this, I was never told to NOT test said grenades in similar manner again. Did I do something wrong? Yes. Was it something I did with full knowledge or was there something else I could have done to avoid it with the information that was provided by your server rules and administrative staff at the time? No.

You're not sorry for the people who died and were victimized by these incidents

With all due respect, you don't know that and as I already have explained, noone died but me and ONE other person who got cloned 5-10 minutes later. I spent every second of me being alive after the incident to inform people of what has happened before I died and spent the entire round watching the hangar bay. Scientifically for me, It was a spectacular filled occurrence and as soon as It happened, I informed the administrative staff of it.

and if you said you are, you keep shielding it behind 'but it's not entirely my fault's.

If you had read the OP and looked at the evidence, one could definitely argue that It is not my fault because: 1. I received contradicting informative statements from your administrative staff, giving me the go-ahead to do X and 2. I was never warned, explained or confronted with what happened until the second incident. Again. Did I do something wrong Yes. Was it something I did with full knowledge or was there something else I could have done to avoid it with the information that was provided by your server rules and administrative staff at the time? No.

You banter and argue with the staff, trying to blame OTHER STAFF for the most minimal mistakes in wording, saying that it's their fault you were allowed to do what you do.

I am not blaming anyone. I am giving evidence which supports my saying as to why and how this happened.

but I feel this quote is enough to prove what I'm trying to say.

Then you have quite clearly not grasped on what has happened here because the only information I have available to make this quote is this thread which does not mention you admins being exempt: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=2159

And it makes sense to presume that even admins can follow it, otherwise ban appeals are prone to becoming VERY cluttered with opinions and what-not.

[cylian]

What guarantee do we have that you'll respect the rules and the decisions of staff in the future if you think its reasonable for you to in giant glowing letters tell members of staff to not post in the appeal?

As I told Tetsip, It states clear as day in this forum section at a sticky post that uninvolved people should not post in ban appeals. There is no mention that admins are an exception which apop himself had to clarify (which he did in a calm, composed manner), no doubt realizing the lack of explanation that exists for it himself. I would heavily recommend that you investigate why such a specific thing was written before beginning to rant on about things like respect.

You seriously lack decency and respect for other people and I must say everything Tetsip has said rings true. You're not the kind of person I think anyone would want to socialize with and I definitely think your toxic behavior is a detriment to other players as well as staff.

Then I would like for you to give specific examples on what you consider to be so "Toxic" and "detrimental" instead of just brushing it all into a crude "TL;DR".

Lets take the other day right before Apop perma'd you again, I had to get onto you about a few RP rules and you seemed to have little regard for what I was saying and simply wanted me to go punish someone else who wasn't doing everything you wanted them

Again, please give examples of this and preferably your admin name so I can explain and comment on this.

[SASoperative]

Bah. I have been one to allow second chances.... Approved. Do not make me regret this decision... Your defense towards our statements have been quick and rather well put. Do note though that odds are if you break the rules that you more than likely won't be coming back a second time depending on how severe the rule was. While I understand that this was a accident according to what I can gather. It was a massive accident and a accident that could EASILY be confused from a Accident to grief. (Which it still was if you want to get technical) I say give him a second shot but keep the notes and monitor them for a while, Does this seem within reason?

[andre1999]

I was a MT that round, and Nicholas Nash also Greifed the SMs cooling, removed the ejection button, and was multikeying. (I was told by a admin when i ahelped about the cooling)

[Tetsip]

I am still very much against this. I'd like to talk in private about it in further detail, but in the end it is your call, SAS.

[Lucyz]

I am still very much against this. I'd like to talk in private about it in further detail, but in the end it is your call, SAS.

He was banned again today by Apop, expect another appeal.