Smartgunner Job | Remove Smartgun From Spec

[Steelpoint]

Summary: I propose that the Smartgun be removed from the Specailist and given to a unique squad based role that exclusivly uses the Smartgun.

Benefits: Of all the weapons the Specialist has access to, the Smartgun is the least effective against higher level Aliens (T2, T3, Queen). The Smartgun is the most pure support weapon the Marines have and I feel a Spec that takes the Smartgun over any other item he can take (B18, SADAR, Nade Launhcer, Sniper) is significantly curtailing his power and reducing his contribution to the squad.

The Smartgun is more effective as a suppression weapon as well as dealing with smaller groups of lower level Aliens with your squad. You may argue that's a good reason to take the Smartgun, but right now the only Marine capable of levelling the playing field against group's of T3's and larger groups of T1 to T3 Aliens are Spec's, more so those with explosive weapons or the Flamer+B18. So taking the Smartgun utterly guts the Spec's greatest contribution just to become a slightly better Standard Marine.

This is why I think the Smartgun should be reserved for a dedicated Smartgunner role, this allows Spec's to take weapons that do well against higher tier Aliens, and allows them to furfill their role, while at the same time allows people to continue to use the Smartgun.

Prehaps I'm just insane and this will be giving too much power to the Marines, but I honestly think the Smartgun is just a M41A that holds more ammo and deals less damage.

Details:

Implementation: Create a new job role, made a new small room to hold this equipment in each squad equipment room.

[FatalEYES]

I think this could prove to be an interesting role. I know I have a hard time taking anything other than the B18 armor due to it's effectiveness, but I've really wanted to try the smartgun. Maybe this could be put into some testing or something?

[Sargeantmuffinman]

Well....maybe........

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

-1

Specialist shouldn't be split up. That defeats the purpose of the class.

[Steelpoint]

I should again emphasize that of all the Spec weapons the specialist has to chose from, the Smartgun is the worst choice to pick in comparison to what all the other weapons/items have when dealing with T3 Aliens. The Specialist is a T3 killer though and through, yet the Smartgun cannot do that. It's a beefed up M41A that still has the drawbacks of a M41A when it comes to higher tier aliens.

The B18 armour is extreamly durable, and with a Flamer/Riot Shield can kill anything bar the Ravager (Immune to fire), the Sniper has incredible damage and can pierce any armour (needs a damage buff though), the Nade Launcher can harm and stun any Alien in the game from any awkward corner and can spell doom for any T3 alien, and the SADAR outright kills anything it looks at (so long as it has ammo).

The Smartgun on the other hands 'bounces' off armour and is just a M41A with more ammo, less damage, night vision as well as being forced to sacrifice carrying any backup weapon, ammo, or other equipment just to lug around a power pack.

A smartgun is a disservice to any spec, in my opinion, and runs counter to the spec's true in game role.

[HalfdeadKiller]

+1 Something must be done to make the smartgun worthwhile in my opinion. The other weapons, after having used them (Specifically the Rocket Launcher), are much more effective at dispatching aliens, than the smartgun.

[UnknownMurder]

-1

Specialist shouldn't be split up. That defeats the purpose of the class.

This.

[Steelpoint]

I'm simply stating how the Smartgun does not go well with the Specialist. While its not a bad weapon by any stretch of the imagination, but it's purpose runs in the opposite of what every other Spec weapon's purpose is. This simply means we will see a meta/culture be generated where Spec's will be looked down upon for taking the Smartgun over any other item, as the Smartgun is simply a bad choice to take.

A spec that takes a Smartgun is just a Standard Marine with a slightly different gun.

Taking the Smartgun punishes the Marines as a whole as that's one less effective anti-T3/anti-group weapon the Marines have, and there's only four Spec's in the entire game so effectivly losing 25% or more of your higher tier firepower is devastating.

[Tetsip]

-1

Specialist shouldn't be split up. That defeats the purpose of the class.

-1 agreeing with Joshuu, the point of Specialsit is for you to choose a special weapon in the gametype to take onto the planet with you. By this logic we should also have a SADAR launcher job, a B18 job, and a sniper job.

Marines have the capacity to be overpowered as it is, don't give every squad a SADAR /AND/ a smartgun.

[Steelpoint]

Not really, because every other item the Spec has access to is, in one way or other, dedicated to taking on heavy infantry/tanks/aliens.

The Smartgun is the exception because its designed on taking on light infantry/aliens and is utterly ineffective against armoured units/high tier aliens.

At this junction the difference between the Smartgun and every other Spec item is "do you want to be a Standard with a different looking gun or do you want to actually be viable and powerful enough to take on the high end aliens/enemy". Because that's the literal difference.

If you want to punish Spec's for taking a weapon that is near identical to every other Standard weapon, sans night vision and extra ammo, then so be it.

[Derpislav]

the point of Specialsit is for you to choose a special weapon in the gametype to take onto the planet with you. By this logic we should also have a SADAR launcher job, a B18 job, and a sniper job.

Except the smartgun is not a special weapon, at all. All other token options serve an actual, otherwise unobtainable purpose, the smartgun just means one more person in the formation being able to fire. It's so much of a support weapon it does not fit with the specialist class at all.

[Biolock]

I've never seen a shortage of marines carrying smartguns... Just sayin'

[RadiantFlash]

-1 As well. Honestly, you say the smart gun's a upgraded m4a1? It sort of is, but isn't. Other specialist weapons may be good versus the t3s, but it doesn't help when the marines constantly move in front of you and take a rocket/sniper round to the face. The smart guns, bypass of friendly fire, and nightvision, makes up for the lack of T-3 killing, I think.

[Sebro]

+1 This isn't some special weapon, it's a vastly used equipment that is and should be available to all squads. Making it quite different to the other weapons, which are quite unique and well...specialized. It'd probably good to make this class a reality.

[Thrain]

I would rather take a middle ground and set the smartgun and its components in a box to the side of the spec prep room, that way if they do not feel like using it they can easily toss it out to the marines to use.

[Gentlefood]

I've never seen a shortage of marines carrying smartguns... Just sayin'

The argument isn't "The smartgun is a bad weapon" The argument is "The smartgun does not fit within the class boundaries and expectations placed upon the specialist."

What he is saying is all of the specialist weapons seem to fall into this category:
High Alpha, Low RoF/DPS.
Sniper, SADAR, GL fit this.

However the smartgun is Low Alpha, High RoF/DPS but low piercing.

Now why this is an issue is because marines have no access to anti-Tier 3 alien weapons besides the Specialist. If specialists take the smartgun (because ignoring FF and lots of ammo is great). Then late game marines are much, much weaker due to the lack of piercing and/or high alpha damage weapons.

While I'm personally neutral on this topic, I keep seeing people missing the argument or interpreting it wrong. What he wants is for Specialists to be a class for countering higher tier aliens, and the smartgun does not fit that roll.

[HalfdeadKiller]

I think a lot of specialists go with the smartgun, simply because it is a smartgun. It is one of the more iconic weapons in the Aliens games/universe in my opinion. The rocket launcher, grenade launcher, and heavy armor are pretty mundane. However, as a specialist who used to go with the smartgun, and ended up fighting against tier 3 aliens, it just couldn't assist enough to be worthwhile anymore. I ran out of ammo pretty quickly trying to support marine pushes, where had I have had a rocket, I would have instantly killed/disabled aliens, and actually made headway.

So, a bunch of specialists carrying smartguns, doesn't necessarily mean it is the best. Maybe if the smartgun had two extra clips in each powerpack, to give it more field time it might be worthwhile. But given the tanking ability of tier 3 aliens, it's usefulness late game appears low. Also, if you want to involve predators, the night vision optics for the Smartgunner doesn't really help see predators in my experience. I had more success blasting them with a rocket in their general area.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

The specialist's role is to specialize, not fall into one category. The Smartgun is just another option for the specialist to play differently.

The whole point of the class is to have multiple playstyles.

[Steelpoint]

That's simply not the case Secret.

Either the Spec is a anti-tier3 Marine or its a slightly better Standard Marine that can't contend with tier 3 aliens at all.

I honestly think the only reason people take the Smartgun over any other item is simply because the Smartgun is as iconic as the Pulse Rifle. If it were not for that then there's no actual reason to take the Smartgun over anything else, not in comparison to the other items the spec can take.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

That's simply not the case Secret.

Either the Spec is a anti-tier3 Marine or its a slightly better Standard Marine that can't contend with tier 3 aliens at all.

I honestly think the only reason people take the Smartgun over any other item is simply because the Smartgun is as iconic as the Pulse Rifle. If it were not for that then there's no actual reason to take the Smartgun over anything else, not in comparison to the other items the spec can take.

The Specialist does not exist to be an anti-Tier 3 class. Nor does the usefulness of the Specialist have to be measured in the DPS they output.

Suppressing a hallway full of aliens from charging can be just as useful to the team as blasting a single hivelord with a rocket. I've seen plenty of people hold down groups of aliens with the smartgun while other squads outflank and destroy them.


Realistically, splitting up the Specialist into two classes won't happen. It detracts too much from the Specialist's options and only serves to make the rounds more of the same. The Specialist class adds some variation between rounds, and curbing variation at this point is usually a bad idea.

[Dyne]

So far I found the smartgun to be most usefull weapon for a squad in many situations, so giving every squad one extra seems to tip the balance heavily in the marines favour.
-1

Just to elaborate a bit why smartgun is love:
1. No friendly fire
2. Lots of ammo
3. Good accuracy and damage
4. Full night sight.

[Abbysynth]

There's a lot of weird ideas floating around in this thread, namely what the point of specialists are.

Specialists are a support class.

They exist to fill niche roles in a squad that are too difficult, complicated, or dangerous for normal marines to handle. Smartguns fall into the support category. There's nothing that says specialists exist only to kill T3 aliens and that was not the design strategy when I made them. They exist in order to shore up the squad with specific and specialized playstyles that depends entirely on their choice-- marines have just as much trouble fighting off 3 mid-tier xenos as they do one T3 (probably more, actually) and this mid-game is where the smartgun excels compared to the other choices.

There's no way marines are getting a smartgun in addition to a marine specialist weapon in their squad. Not gonna happen.

[apophis775]

What Abby said.

Guys, this isn't "LEAGUE OF LEGENDS".

We aren't making jobs to counter other things. We are doing what we are doing, to promote RP, fit into the lore, and promote Fun.

DENIED.