An example of how many bullets a Predator can currently soak

[Dyne]

Disclaimer:
This post is a field report, showing how upgraded the latest changelog made Predator armor and general health against different bullets.

Before we proceed I feel obliged to note that most interactions with various Predators were fun, both due to game mechanic and,
most importantly, the player portraying the Predator in question.
(Insert Vormekta for Elder poster here)
Predators are cool, most of them weaved nice stories.

Yet yesterday a Predator showed himself openly at the FOB under attack by aliens on the verge of being overrun, attacked marines, took 50+ bullets without dodging (from pistols, shotguns, rifles, and mostly a smartgun), killed 3-6 marines (hard to determine cause of death in the logs) and proceeded to suicide by attacking aliens.

I assume he got cracked bones and maybe some IB, yet it didnt lay him down, or preclude him from using a plasma gun in any way.

Whats done is done, yet this event clearly shows that the balance of "alien pack" vs "marine squad/fireteam" vs "lone Predator" is currently weighted heavily to the "lone Predator", and, mayb some adjustment is in order. After the latest armor/health(?) change the only realistic way for a group of marines to down a Predator, even if he is detected, is to blow him up lots and stick him with knives.


WHAT IS THIS POST ABOUT:
Hopefully if the armor/health of a Predator will be made more manageable they will be actual hunters from the source material,
and not an unkillable demigod laughing off bullets.
It will benefit aliens- I am yet to see a single Predator killed by them not in a direct suicide charge.
It will benefit marines- as they stand at least some chance without resorting to meta/"lucky" explosions/close combat.
Most importantly- it will benefit the Predators themselves, making them hunt and not bumrush things, adding real risk(again).

Logs in question:
Full log, just in case you doubt the edited part: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0atddjpa1u54 ... 9.htm?dl=0
Pred fired upon edited part: https://www.dropbox.com/s/88skj4lngrgc5 ... t.rtf?dl=0

Result:
I counted 64 shots that connected, ignoring the ones that missed.
Some pistol and .44 hits, one or two shotgun shells connecting, some SMG hits, and a full belt of a smartgun, give or take.
Overall this represents a marine squad in good firing conditions- the Pred didnt hide or hunt, he just tanked and massacred, unchecked and unslowed.
Somewhere after the first 10 shots connected the Pred disappeared and later reappeared on the same spot, I assume healing?

Thank you for reading, and hope the armor/health will be adjusted.
Anyway, love and kisses.

[Kukeke11]

Umm before the changelog 3 bullets meant death, they had internal bleeding and no way to heal it.. so they chose not to fight marines at all because 3 bullets was always guranteed.

[Dyne]

That is why I feel obliged to post the log in question, especially after the Predator player accused me of taking the number of hits "from my arse".

[HalfdeadKiller]

I think it would be better if predators had the ability to heal their battle damage, rather than tank it. This makes prolonged frontal engagements risky.

[Aeleto]

This was yesterday, yes? Said predator also tanked 20+ slashes from tier 3 xenos when the FOB was overran and we were inside the dropship.


This is frustrating considering a pred can murder you with a few hits, even if you are the Queen.

[Dyne]

Yes, it was yesterday.
Sorry I couldn't get the log after my characters death in a good way, so didnt follow up on exact alien events unfolding.

Aliens were pretty cool that round, we had an awesome siege in hydroponics, and then one desperate FOB defence.

[Dyne]

I think it would be better if predators had the ability to heal their battle damage, rather than tank it. This makes prolonged frontal engagements risky.

I think they can heal a bit already, with crystals?
And yes, better lower the health/armor and give them medkits to heal IB than...this.
But that's just IMHO.

[xywenx00]

Seems really OP. But, the pred could've used his alien injectors. I'm not sure what they contain and how good they heal, though. Do his clothes add the armour or does the pred himself have that high armour value?

[Redfield5]

It's not impossible to kill Predators. Mike Hernandez and I managed to take one down once.

[Dyne]

It's not impossible to kill Predators. Mike Hernandez and I managed to take one down once.

Not saying it isnt. Mostly questioning "how". Just have a look at the log.

[Feweh]

Alright, I'll clear this all up in a complete and honest re-cap.

First off, the Predator that you're talking about there is a mix between APOP and Myself during one round. After the round we BOTH explained to you why we took so many bullets throughout the round clearly, you ignored us and not surprisingly posted this thread complaining. Apophis specifically told you yesterday that he went on a suicide run and injected himself with 2 INJECTOR's prior to combat which helped him survive more pain and damage during that fight.

Everyone need's to understand that EVERY bullet that hit the Predator there DID DAMAGE, it also most likely caused us to DE-CLOAK or Crippled us to some degree. The difference with Predator's now is that they have a higher pain tolerance, meaning we no longer slow down when getting hit. HOWEVER, we still suffer damage and have to back out and heal JUST NOT IMMEDIATELY ANYMORE.

The system was changed, where-as before 2-3 bullet's where killing Predator's and we couldn't engage Marine's without dying. Think about it, 3-5 bullet's was killing a Predator that fully engaged a target with Melee weapons. Now we had a mild buff that let's us soak up a bit more damage so we can actively engage Marine's.

I don't think you thought this complaint through properly and I'm guessing you were one of the people to be killed by a Predator. Predator's are supposed to be mildly OP, they are supposed to be stronger and faster than the Xeno's and Marines. Your entire LOG is also the log for an ENTIRE round of 3 hours. As I said you have a mix of my predator and Apop's predator within that log which went on for 3 HOURS.

Take in mind, we can get shot 3 times.. pull out.. heal up.. then come back.

Dyne, we explained this to you yesterday CLEARLY and you still posted a thread complaining. You have to understand, Predator's are a rare 1-2 predator entry into a round. They are supposed to be stronger to a degree so they can survive. Clearly you weren't around before when Predator's were dying from 2-3 bullets to the chest.

You have to understand that because of the BYOND mechanic's it's impossible to balance out Predator's realistically. Obviously in Lore they should take 2-3 shot's to take down with a rifle.. But BYOND is a 8 Dimensional laggy video game, there's no unique cover system or mechanics to properly add to the Predator aside for a "Pounce" system which wound subdue a Marine/Xeno (Which people would complain more about). So the only way to balance out the Predator is to allow them to soak up a couple extra bullet's so they can engage Marine's fairly.

The complaints about Predator come from something fairly simple... It's a white-list unique list that 99% of the population don't have access to. Which mean's the generic player like yourself doesn't understand the concept behind it aside from their own selfish view of "I can't kill it easily, not fair".

As a Predator that round I killed a total of 5 Marine's and 5 Xeno's, FOR A WHOLE 3 HOUR ROUND. How many of you play Xeno from round start and are able to kill 10ish Marine's a full round? A lot of people can easily.

In all, Predator's were mildly buffed so they could engage Marine's without dying of internal wound's from 2-3 bullets. Your complaint is invalid because your log that you posted is from a full 3 hour round and the Predator's did in fact suffer crippling damage numerous time's. (One Predator even died halfway through the round)

Honestly, your entire post really pisses me off because it's ignorant as fuck. We explained the situation to you yesterday and you ignored the HOST/OWNER Apophis and ANOTHER Predator. Also you mentioned "I never see them directly killing Xeno's", this just ignorant as hell... we kill so many Xeno's is almost game balancing at time's. That round with the log's posted from I killed 5 Xeno's, 2 Sentinels, 1 Runner, 1 Hunter and a Ravager.

[Feweh]

To make something clear, I don't think Predator's are perfectly balanced by any means. All I'm saying is that I find your complaint very ignorant because if you look at the fact's it's not at all as bad as you make it seem to be.

Obviously Predator's need work and balance done to them, by no mean's am I saying it's a perfect system.

[Dyne]

I am not blaming anyone or anything. Just posted an exact report of an event.
I linked logs specifically so you dont have to take my word for it.
And the aliens that round had the same experience.
Dont take it personal.

Ignorant how, please explain?
Was the pred in question hit less then the logs showed?

[apophis775]

Firstly, I was the predator in the Fob.

I was hunting an alien, don't remember which, and the marines ran up, blasted me, then killed the prey i was hunting, and while i was behind cover, started laughing. I'm not sure what the other pred did, but this was shortly after I had arrived, and had only been hunting aliens.

So, I bided my time. I went, healed up, still had the bullet fragments but now, had brain damage.

Since I had been so greatly dishonored, there was nothing to do, except commit suicide in the most honorable way possible.

I decloaked in a GROUP of marines, roared and started slashing. I killed 1 marine right away. Other marines started backing off and opening fire. However, they were aiming at my head, which was, protected by a big fukkin metal mask. I sliced up a few more marines and remove some limbs before my glaive got stuck in what used to be someones right arm. I changed to the wrist-blades and plasma. I fired the low-level plasma to knock everyone down, and begin stabbing them.

All in all, I did take a LOT of bullets, but most of them, were aimed at my head, and almost NONE of them were the M41a rifle, as I sliced those people up the moment i saw them. Mostly, it was people firing the service pistol or the SMG, both of which, do VERY LITTLE damage to anyone with armor.

But again, this was explained yesterday when people complained over OOC.

here's a tip though, if you don't want to get ROCKED by the predators, don't KOS them. They are more humanoid that the aliens, so you could easily RP that you were afraid but didn't fire. That, or don't COMPLETLY LIGHT THEM UP WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE when an unarmed predator reveals himself and displays that he has no weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70eSYVQVBr8


Also, please use SCREENSHOTS when you use logs as evidence, it's FAR too easy to edit the logs without it.

But, I can go find the logs if you want, and post the entire story.

[Dyne]

I just posted one log illustrating the amount of bullets a Predator took.
I specifically did it on the next day, so all the salt I might had had is evaporated now. (Or blown away)
Not blaming any player.
And most of the bullets, as seen in the log, were from a smartgun, for obvious reasons, to be precise.

[HalfdeadKiller]

The below is every confirmed bullet hit in a single engagement against a predator. Two shots are from a 44. Around three or so are from a shotgun. The rest are from M41As. This engagement included 2-3 marines. The predator either died to an alien, or succumbed to his wounds about 3-5 minutes after killing the marines who engaged him and walking around and managing to smear bioglue and biogel on himself. I was unable to confirm any other bullets hitting or attack logs past where I died/became incapacitated. There are ~41 confirmed bullet hits from my perspective, within about 5-10 minutes. Shrapnel has also been included. Unfortunately, timestamps are not included with user saved logs. The predator was unhindered by all the damage, aside from perhaps moving slower.

► Show Spoiler

Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown has been cut in the chest with Marine Combat Knife by Marshall Bowchiew!
The Marine Combat Knife sticks in the wound!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
The bullet shrapnel sticks in the wound!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the left foot!
Unknown is hit by the bullet the right hand!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
The bullet shrapnel sticks in the wound!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
The bullet shrapnel sticks in the wound!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
You hear a loud cracking sound coming from Unknown.
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest! <- I die shortly after around this confirmation log due to plasma/wristblades
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the chest!
Unknown is hit by the bullet in the left foot!
-At this point, my other fellow marine dies, after having run out of ammo and/or being hit bit plasma/wrist blades-
-A second marine also dies I believe-
-the predator puts bioglue and biogel on his wounds, but dies due to his wounds being to great, or an alien finishing him off-
-END LOGS-

[coroneljones]

I was that pred,from what my scans showed,broken bones,lost blood,shrapnel killing me from the inside everytime i walked,slowed down and i was dying,i pretty much died to a single acid spit after that
Tought i did take some tricord before and after

[Steelpoint]

From what I recall of that scenario HalfdeadKiller is that the Predator simply sustained too much damage from that encounter to survive even with the medkit, he was a dead man walking but it just took him about a minute for him to actually kneel over and die.

Predators are defiantly very durable as of the recent changes, and this will definitely be a delicate balancing act as we move forward. That Predator got into a lot of engagements and sustained a lot of damage.

[Feweh]

Predators don't die on the spot, as stated... new mechanics have us survive engagements and then die after. Had a similar engagement like the one above a couple of days ago.

Was fighting two Marines, took a bunch of shots but was able to kill the Marines. Died about 2 minutes after the engagement due to blood loss and internal wounds.

[HalfdeadKiller]

Then perhaps I am just not used to that. Normal combat ends up with the enemy either becoming incapacitated due to damage, or outright dieing. Predators seem to do neither, but instead succumb over time, or whatever Pink said. The problem with being so "tanky" and not dieing as I or others am/are used to, is that while the predator may be completely incapable of surviving after the encounter, he is still able to completely mess up the people attacking him in his incredibly messed up state. In my stated logs, myself and two other marines.

I'm unsure on how a predator should die. Or what their balance against damage should be. Something just seems, off about still being able to walk after being shot in the chest this many times, even though he is going to die shortly afterwards. Maybe it just takes some getting used to. I don't know.

[coroneljones]

Theres a way to fix this..dont chase a predator

[Feweh]

Then perhaps I am just not used to that. Normal combat ends up with the enemy either becoming incapacitated due to damage, or outright dieing. Predators seem to do neither, but instead succumb over time, or whatever Pink said. The problem with being so "tanky" and not dieing as I or others am/are used to, is that while the predator may be completely incapable of surviving after the encounter, he is still able to completely mess up the people attacking him in his incredibly messed up state. In my stated logs, myself and two other marines.

I'm unsure on how a predator should die. Or what their balance against damage should be. Something just seems, off about still being able to walk after being shot in the chest this many times, even though he is going to die shortly afterwards. Maybe it just takes some getting used to. I don't know.

Shitty BYOND mechanics limit predators being balanced properly so you have to give them unrealistic tankiness to suffice. Lore wise most marine's would be killed cloaked or instantly.. for Balance reason Marines arent insta killed or killed while cloaked (usually).

So by limiting Predators to make it somewhat fair to Marine's you remove their main vital capability... stealth kills. This then forces Predators to engage marine's upfront and more brutish. The only way to compensate this change is to make them tanky enough to survive engagements to a degree.

3 Marines mutually taking out 1 Predator is a fair trade off though. Especially when Ravagers could do just as much damage in a even engagement.

I think the biggest issue right now is Marines meta-attack Predators and want to actively fight them. So when they die they complain it's unfair etc. Marines shouldnt be actively trying to hunt Predators, yet they constantly are.

Hope this adds a different perspective to your view on the situation

[HalfdeadKiller]

Well, honestly, I would be okay with having the lore wise cloaked attacks, so long as predators are balanced health wise. That's how it was in every other AVP game, why not here?

[coroneljones]

Well, honestly, I would be okay with having the lore wise cloaked attacks, so long as predators are balanced health wise. That's how it was in every other AVP game, why not here?

Well in AVP you can sneak behind the marines since they dont have a 360 degree field of view/eyes on the back of their head
And preds can easily jump away

[Dyne]

So by limiting Predators to make it somewhat fair to Marine's you remove their main vital capability... stealth kills. This then forces Predators to engage marine's upfront and more brutish. The only way to compensate this change is to make them tanky enough to survive engagements to a degree.

Predator, being stealthed, chooses his battleground, when to reveal himself, and to what force.
Marines are the reactive party, its an important note. They have no means to actively hunt Predators at this moment.

I think the biggest issue right now is Marines meta-attack Predators and want to actively fight them. So when they die they complain it's unfair etc. Marines shouldnt be actively trying to hunt Predators, yet they constantly are.

In the example mentioned The Predator in question appeared out of thin air in a FOB full of marines under attack by Aliens, and proceeded to attack marines.

Overall "meta" is acting on players knowledge, not characters.
From a characters perspective if you land at a dead colony and see a non human- armed, armored, stealthy,
you at most give one warning shot or shout, and then fill him up with lead, so not much meta here, IMHO.