Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Locked
Wolfgang
Registered user
Posts: 1
Joined: 12 Aug 2015, 08:40

Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Wolfgang » 25 Aug 2015, 08:22

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

This is essentially a recommendation on what to do. Since you are constantly faced, with the very even sided. Marines or Aliens being OP. You balance one thing, but you unbalance another. Make one stronger, the other then becomes weaker - then you have to make them even stronger, or remove something you added. It's impossible to perfectly balance anything and this argument is why you in fact should not be balancing things between these two factions.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
It will hold tighter to the true Aliens universe and it's also a tested as well as proven fact of Roleplay as well as games.


Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Right instead of answering the question to it's specifics I'll just start typing - whatever this is.




The Aliens, Predators and Aliens Vs Predator universes all have a very, very common thing. The aliens, in fact - are the advanced race, the top predators, the thing that makes you shit your pants and wake up with sweat dripping down your forehead because you had a dream about them. They are the monsters of the universes, the things that come in, kill everyone and leave very little in terms of survivors. The thing about CM is, really - they are barely that. Marines can run about like their Master Chief and give these aliens what for, specialists, engineers and marines who have a good firing position absolutely decimate aliens. The only things that really do hit Marines hard, are the Tier 3's - but even a Praetorian or a Ravager can find themselves getting destroyed by a Specialist or even just ONE grenade. But in any case, Aliens the universe, comic - or whatever. Has always held the idea that the humans had to struggle to survive, they had to use every skill, resource and possibly mental strategy they could get their hands on in order to make sure they weren't lunch. This is what a lot of gamers crave, a hard game - having to try really hard for something that is quite basic, to stay alive. You want to try and reinforce that, this fight or die situation, where the weak die and the strong probably still die. It's a hopelessness you add to the game, this reality and immersion that holds players into their characters as they are roleplaying.

The best roleplay and situations I have experienced and I think most of us can agree have experienced, is when the odds were stacked against the Marines. Where they were in their darkest hour, but they somehow managed - against all odds, to survive, to dominate and kill the aliens. It makes those victories that much sweeter, when you expect to die, to really get demolished - yet somehow you make it. That's what makes amazing roleplay and gameplay, when those moments of badassery have actually been truly earned by you, not just because the game wants to hand it to you on a silver platter.

If any of you have played Dungeons And Dragons, specifically on Roll20 - you'll understand this in much more detail. My fondest memories of DnD have been when I absolutely thought my character was going to die, I was just sitting on the edge of my seat, thinking - this is it. This is eight months gone, I'll have to make a new one and somehow, it doesn't happen. Anyway, that's my rant over. But the morale of the story is that the Marines should have a hopelesness and should be at a disadvantage, not because the Marines should always lose. But because it creates much better roleplay, it adds to the immersion and it makes victory that much sweeter.

- TMOC.

Image

User avatar
Ninjah!
Registered user
Posts: 72
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 13:44
Location: The country of waffles

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Ninjah! » 25 Aug 2015, 08:35

What will happen if you make aliens stronger? People want to play aliens over marines. What happens when you realize you can't play alien because it's full and you don't feel like playing meatbag out to die: you don't play. BYOND isn't the good platform for a fully immersive RPG where you can outbalance one side so the other one becomes more fun. -1

User avatar
Jack McIntyre
Donor
Donor
Posts: 457
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 22:25
Location: Indiana

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Jack McIntyre » 25 Aug 2015, 08:46

I think they are pretty balanced now, aliens and marines really are set for victory or defeat by the players and leadership on their side. If a queen is awful, usually the xenos find themselves on a losing front, but if the bridge staff sucks or goes SSD, then the marines are losing a big part of supplies and support. I would say I would leave it how it is how. Teamwork is key when playing on a server like this. You work together you win, you try to Rambo or play hero and charge straight for the enemy, odds are you are going to die.

Kinrany
Registered user
Posts: 48
Joined: 03 Mar 2015, 17:38

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Kinrany » 25 Aug 2015, 08:58

Colonial Marines is a game about marines in the first place, not aliens.

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1119
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Jeser » 25 Aug 2015, 09:07

I already made comment on another suggestion, so I'll just copy paste it here.
Jeser wrote:Let me tell you one secret.

I play as marine almost always. Cause I xenophobe and I hate those scary and ugly as fuck pieces of space bear's shit!! ARGH, I wanna kill them all!! And I found out, that right now, marines are more OP, than aliens. Much more. Single decent squad can easily prove this. Why marines don't cynically fuck aliens every round? Well, balance is kept by those incompetent and stupid marines, who:
  1. Give shitty orders. Yes, incompetent high command is much worse, than incompetent half of squad, believe me. I want whitelist it at all (Actually, I wanna whitelist all humans, except survivors, but nobody likes my brilliant idea :cry: )
  2. Shitty SLs. Well, squad without SL is a bunch of sheeps with RPG surrounded by pack of wolfs. Seems, that they can shoot from RPG and scary wolfs, bu-u-ut more likely they will shoot themselves and wolfs will get on dinner fresh-baked delicious meat.
  3. And the last, but not the least important thing - total incompetence of Sulaco personnel. Sulaco doctors, who can't in surgery, RO, that don't know how to make more points (and didn't even read my guide), CE and CT, who causes pandemic balding of Sulaco crew, MPs who use flash, throw flashbang, shoot in taser and after that harm batoning marine for saying "Fuck you". In the middle of Briefing, so half of marines get perma blindness. And of course, marines themselves. Friendly fire and aiming in the head, engineers don't know, how to set up FoB and medics, who don't know what is Bicardine and what Kelotane for. Rembos also, of course.
In summary, ONE decent squad of 6 competent marine can take down up to 13-15 aliens before being fucked up. One. Imagine, how aliens will whine, if >50% of crew will be competent enough?
Things are pretty balanced now, by game mechanics from alien's side and incompetence and stupidity from marine's side. I don't think we need big balance changes.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.
Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Apop's permission: Click

User avatar
K0NFL1QT
Registered user
Posts: 93
Joined: 13 Aug 2015, 11:43

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by K0NFL1QT » 25 Aug 2015, 09:48

Wolfgang wrote:the idea that the humans had to struggle to survive, they had to use every skill, resource and possibly mental strategy they could get their hands on in order to make sure they weren't lunch.
This very much describes the situation as is. As already stated, barely even half of the marines numbers, both on the frontlines and in support, will be decently competent. Marines will kill each other with friendly fire, or just because they're assholes. Doctors will kill patients due to medical incompetence. Engineers will not build adequate defenses. The CO/XO and BO's will regularly AFK. All of these are holes in the marine strategy. Marines need every person at their best in whatever role they are to get a hard earned win, and still a lot of marines will either die or be infected by that one runner who pounces and doublehuggers your face. Any Alien can make an easy win out of 1v1 with a marine; neurotoxin, screech, pounce, hugger-throw, general tackle spam. For a marine to win requires, as you say, skill, particular resources and mental strategy. And even then, the marine will likely end up bleeding or with broken bones that take them out of the game for at least ten minutes if not completely, while an alien who 'just barely' wins needs only to sit on weeds for twenty seconds no matter the severity of their wounds.

I wouldn't say the sides were balanced yet. Aliens are amazingly good at what they do, Marines are okay-ish and heavily rely on a chain of competence. Most marines are either tactically inept, or just forget themselves in the heat of battle and over-extend; Aliens generally only need to capitalize on marine incompetence and work around marine defenses with acid to eventually steamroll.
1138 wrote:“I am a short, asian woman.”

User avatar
Keyword
Registered user
Posts: 38
Joined: 31 Jul 2015, 01:29

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by Keyword » 25 Aug 2015, 10:33

I wouldn't say the sides were balanced yet. Aliens are amazingly good at what they do, Marines are okay-ish and heavily rely on a chain of competence. Most marines are either tactically inept, or just forget themselves in the heat of battle and over-extend; Aliens generally only need to capitalize on marine incompetence and work around marine defenses with acid to eventually steamroll.
That's the way it's meant to be, in my opinion.
Aliens are supposed to be strong in a 1v1 or a 1v2 scenario, because they're meant to catch the dumb marines that run off, if they could die to those Rambo marines (which they still can if the marine is good enough), the rounds would end in literally 30 minutes or even less. Not fun for the aliens.

Marine balance comes with teamwork and their insane amount of able fighters, and Aliens find their strength in organization and coordinated attacks.

Each side has very effective tools to surpass the other (Orbital Strikes, Flamethrowers,Supply Drops,Explosives,Reinforcements on demand. Aliens have a Tank that is able to pierce defenses, a Fire Inmune Elite Warrior, Long Range attacks and Fast moving little fuckers), with marines having the most because duh, they're marines.

It all really comes down to how people play them, and there's no code that will prevent some of those people from being dumb.

GingerCultLeader
Registered user
Posts: 127
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 20:12

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by GingerCultLeader » 25 Aug 2015, 22:30

It helps if you take it from both the marine's side and the aliens side. Both sides are human players on two separate teams trying to win against the other. The challenge is how they adapt to the other team's strategy.

User avatar
apophis775
Host
Host
Posts: 6985
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 18:05
Location: Ice Colony
Byond: Apophis775
Contact:

Re: Colonial Marines - A Better Balance Of Play

Post by apophis775 » 24 Nov 2015, 17:39

Your basically talking about "imperfect balance" which is what I'm already trying to do.

Locked