Allow Doctors to use Handguns

[Wickedtemp]

Summary: Alter the current rules slightly to allow Sulaco doctors to use handguns. As of now, it is against the rules for them to do so.

Benefits : It would allow medical personal at least SOME defense when boarded.

Details : The doctors are doctors, not marines, I get that. But do you really think an adult on a military vessel wouldn't know how to at least use a handgun? They require hardly any real training, even the old "Point it at something you don't like and pull the little lever." would be enough to shoot at a xeno. Aside from that, it's only common sense to do this. They might be doctors, but they're HUMAN. A human isn't just going to cower in fear when there are weapons around.

Implementation : Just a simple rule change, allowing Sulaco Doctors to use handguns.

[Jeser]

I already suggested once to allow only M4A3 and SMGs to non-combatant Sulaco crew: MTs, CE, RO, CTs, SMs, Researchers, CMO.

Cause SMG was designed for non-combatant personnel.

[Wickedtemp]

I already suggested once to allow only M4A3 and SMGs to non-combatant Sulaco crew: MTs, CE, RO, CTs, SMs, Researchers, CMO.

Cause SMG was designed for non-combatant personnel.

How'd that go?

I mean, it doesn't even really make sense. If you're on a military vessel, you should know how to use a handgun.

[Adjective]

Sorry men, doctors are designated to cower and lock themselves in lockers until the alien find them and eats their faces off.

Oh wait.. that was from that Aliens video game....

[FatalEYES]

I still really do wish that doctors were allowed to at least have handguns if the Sulaco is boared. Yes they are there to save lives, but that's not to say that they can't defend themselves or their patients in dire situations. Handguns are outrageously easy to handle and fire in the real world, most adults would have no issue with it even with the most meager amount of training. I want this to be a thing.
+1

[Steelpoint]

Don't forget the Sulaco is a combat ship, not a civilian ship. I would imagine everyone onboard is a member of the military.

I support at least being able to issue non-combat personal a sidearm for personal defence.

[Jeser]

How'd that go?

I mean, it doesn't even really make sense. If you're on a military vessel, you should know how to use a handgun.

M41A is bulky rifle. SMG is much easier to handle. That's why non-combatant personnel should be able to use M4A3 and SMGs only.

[Wickedtemp]

Yeah... The service pistols at the very least. SMG's would take a bit of training to handle. The magnums and rifles and shotguns are too much.

It's a military vessel.
Handguns are extremely easy to handle.
Any human being with a single shred of self preservation would grab a handgun to defend themselves if they could.

And actually, I would think Command staff would HAVE to have some kind of military training to be in their position anyways.

[Steelpoint]

In war time its usually standard issue for high ranking officers, even generals, to have a handgun on them.

These are Military Doctors and assorted military personal, again they should at least have a sidearm in a holster or something.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

I still really do wish that doctors were allowed to at least have handguns if the Sulaco is boared. Yes they are there to save lives, but that's not to say that they can't defend themselves or their patients in dire situations. Handguns are outrageously easy to handle and fire in the real world, most adults would have no issue with it even with the most meager amount of training. I want this to be a thing.
+1

I agree they should be given to doctors, but have you ever fired a handgun? They're fairly easy to operate, but difficult to aim for someone with no training.

[FatalEYES]

I agree they should be given to doctors, but have you ever fired a handgun? They're fairly easy to operate, but difficult to aim for someone with no training.

I've fired several, all with very barebones training like "Only aim it down the range." or "Never have your finger on the trigger unless you plan to fire.". So I honestly think that if I can handle a handgun, any adult doctor can.

[Dyne]

There is nothing complicated at firing a handgun safely. Three hours training covers the basics.
Also doctor Watson (both the original and reimagined modern male) fires a pistol quite well.
+1

[AncientV25]

I agree they should be given to doctors, but have you ever fired a handgun? They're fairly easy to operate, but difficult to aim for someone with no training.

All military personnel are given basic combat training.

[Jack McIntyre]

+1 all reasons already explained

[Mycroft Macarthur]

+1

nevermind the fact that this denies us our second amendment rights (this is a USCM ship, not a weyland yutani ship, ergo we're on american soil in the eyes of the law) but most people are afraid to go to a bad neighborhood unarmed let alone the far reaches of possibly unknown and uncharted space where literally fucking ANYTHING could be waiting for you, why on earth would anyone being of sound mind and body go there without a gun when theres literally hundreds of free ones all of five feet away from where you work and live just lying on the floor and shit, its one thing if your a conscientious objector or a pacifist and you refuse to arm yourself or kill someone but even if you dont want to HARM someone you can still just use the gun to help talk someone down or try to disarm them (certain definitions/believers of pacifism perfectly allow you to fire on someone, you just cant willingly KILL them, a disabling shot is okay) and i've yet to meet ANY sulaco doctor, CMO or researcher who roleplayed as being one anyways, aside from which i think most people would rather have the choice to refuse a weapon so they can decide if they want to or not as opposed to the decision being FORCED upon them (and dont give me some bullshit about them being civilian volunteers, civilians can and DO arm themselves all the time and even then, why would a military ship not have military doctors? the armed forces have had their own doctors even back when we were still all using horses and swords and shit, prettymuch any time past rome, the military would have supplied their OWN medical practitioners instead of needing civilians to come do it and i think even the romans had them)

dont get me wrong, i can understand why we might deny them the right to have M41a's and especially spec weapons (dont waste the good shit on guys who wont see action) as well as shotguns and maybe even SMG's (legally shotguns are the only other firearm type aside from very small caliber rifles that are typically legal but codewise they're one of the best guns we have) but at LEAST let them have a handgun or revolver, or some throwing knives even, most marines dont even touch the fucking knives that i've seen and theres always shit tons around, even if ultimately such weapons would be useless the peace of mind and eliminating that feeling of helplessness, allowing them to contribute if medbay gets invaded...that alone is worthwhile.

of all the rules this one is certainly one i've always been against and will never support for prettymuch any reason, i seriously doubt they're going to overtake the ship with a handgun, revolver or any variation of knives or melee weapons and if they DO try to gun down marines and take over the ship it sounds like they're breaking a bunch of OTHER rules as is and you should punish them for those ones first (which is a bigger crime, being armed or attempting to kill the CO?)






on a somewhat unrelated note there isn't anything in the code ITSELF which says doctors cant go armed and the vast majority of people will outright ignore it if you DO happen to arm yourself (which is IMPOSSIBLY easy), i've never once been bitched at for grabbing a gun in alpha as a doctor (and i ALWAYS do, i mean, its me we're talking about) even if you see someone burst in medbay and you pull out an SMG and kill the larva people will usually be content to go back to what they were doing afterwards and pretend as if nothing had happened.

i really get the impression no one among the playerbase really approves of this rule or cares for it, ergo why is it there? theres no reason to have a rule everyone is against and no one is going to follow and it certainly isn't heavily enforced.

[Steelpoint]

Also lets not forget that by the time a Doctor needs to use a pistol that most of the aliens will simply laugh it off.

The pistol is a weapon of last resort, its best usage is committing suicide and for killing facehuggers and crit aliens.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

i really feel the pistol should have its firing rate buffed to make them more viable honestly, the choice between revolver or handgun should be a tactical choice as opposed to one simply being better in every respect.

[Steelpoint]

The only difference is that a magnum can't fit in a pocket or armour slot, whereas the pistol can.

Aisde from that, and ammo size, the magnum beats the pistol in all other respects.

[UnknownMurder]

Magnum has higher firepower and will push a gun out of a doctor's hand moderately.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

i dunno, whether that would be true or not would depend more on that specific individual, i mean technically doctor isn't a profession that requires physical strength but maybe the guy just works out, i mean if you have a good body AND your a doctor alot of women will just throw themselves at you en masse.

[Tetsip]

Doctors (Surgeons, civilian medical staff, etc. NOT Field Medics) swear the Hippocratic Oath before they're allowed to practice. The oath covers a large amount of things, but one of the exerts explains that a doctor will never take a the life of a human. It's a fair thing to say that given this, it is not viable for the Sulaco medical staff to even be trained in the use of firearms.

"Practice two things in your dealings with disease: either help or do not harm the patient"

-1 Doctors should be healing, not killing.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

(a) Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

QED, you were marines before you were doctors, quit yer bitching and do your job, if you allow enemies of the state to escape unscathed you have VIOLATED the United States Armed Forces oath of enlistment, marines should be keeping their patients alive, not just sitting there as everyone dies around them and being all, "sorry guys, preventing something from killing you isn't in my job description, but if you happen to fight your enemies off by yourself feel free to limp back over here"

[Steelpoint]

The attitude of not doing anything to harm someone is one I would see with a Android (except xenos are not human so go wild), but this is a military organisation at its core and you are a member of a military force operating at the edges of human space and are expected to fight spontaneous and unexpected enemies.

A side arm seems fine for all personal to be issued with.

[Tetsip]

(a) Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

QED, you were marines before you were doctors, quit yer bitching and do your job, if you allow enemies of the state to escape unscathed you have VIOLATED the United States Armed Forces oath of enlistment, marines should be keeping their patients alive, not just sitting there as everyone dies around them and being all, "sorry guys, preventing something from killing you isn't in my job description, but if you happen to fight your enemies off by yourself feel free to limp back over here"

You're missing the point. The Sulaco Doctors are not military personnel. ICly there is no reason for them to be armed because up until this point no such thing as an alien existed. Of course usually common sense would dictate that when shit hits the fan, the rules change.

HOWEVER, what we as staff have observed is that the moment aliens board the Sulaco the medical staff stop treating marines and instead pick up a gun and start participating in the fight. Sure, maybe a good doctor or two stay behind to continue treating the sick but our observations yielded that generally speaking, the majority of Sulaco doctors abandon their job when aliens board.

That is why Doctors were disallowed from having guns, and that is why it very likely will not change.

[Steelpoint]

If Doctors are running of the job to fight then why does them having a side arm influence their decision?

They will run off to fight irrespective of them having a side arm or not, considering the amount of guns on the Sulaco it would take no effort to pick up a rifle. Hell there's bound to be a dozen spare guns lying around in the hands of dead marines in medbay itself.

The point I'm making is that your going to ban those MD's either way, but the critical difference here is that if a Alien gets into medbay then either the MD's die or they can defend themselves and their patients with a pistol.