Alien Queen at the moment of posting

[Dyne]

Your Byond Key: Dyne667

Your character name:Natalie "Snow" Reyes

Their character name: Queen

Their Byond key (optional - if you know it): unknown

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): current, 16:14

What rule(s) were broken: Rule 5- no metagaming.

Description of the incident: On landing by pod Bravo squad found itself in picturesque walls and doors made out of resin. Not having half a minute to observe the picturesque local development they were beset by friendly lizards wanting to put lovely facehuggers on them, as sign of friendship.
On playing out my part in the locals custom I a-helped the situation, but Coroneljones believed it was OK, as the Queen just chose that area (and the three domes around, including Engineering) as a hive, so no rules were really broken.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
These are the screenshots from 12:41 server time, roughly seven minutes after landing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8dk4lyxppkaz ... 1.bmp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9txcs6kwjcjj ... 2.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/de1pst8byo31o ... 3.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5avyaeid83bzn ... 4.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4upqewemu8r7t ... 5.png?dl=0

How you would punish the accused:
Coroneljones answered me in admin PM that "The queen decided to be unique"

To not the play "meta your meta" and uniquely land next time with flamers and exosuits (they are just carrying our crates, honest!) I ask:
1. the Queen to be given a warning;
2. a clear rule prohibiting meta-camping of landing zones be introduced and enforced, akin to a rule prohibiting marines to attack north immediately on landing.

[Jack McIntyre]

I would have to agree, on the bridge we heard Bravo was wiped out almost instantly. The rest of the squads tried to take it back, but they got pushed back and then it pretty much guaranteed we had to fall back from the FOB already without doing much on the planet surface. I didn't know it was so bad until I got permission from the CO to go down to try and go all XO field commander and I was even shocked by it. I would say if you want faster rounds something you could do, but it pissed a lot of people off.


Edit: Also sorry was looking at the pictures, but how did the queen know it was called a pod? Props to the other xeno players for coming up with creative names like the metal egg and such, A+ to those guy. However I know when I play Xeno it is always the big metal bird for the shuttle, doubt they would call it a pod, sorry just my two cents. Now I am done.

[Dyne]

Round ended.
13:14, 33:0

[Abydos]

I was the first drone / only Hivelord for that round. At the start, we were deciding on what to pick and choose. The queen was chosen and instead of making a hive at the caves, they decided to make a hive at the dorms dome. So we moved along there, but we couldn't so we picked somewhere closer being roboticist and the other dome.

The queen then ordered people to start spreading weeds along the roads and other domes, while preparing hives and nests at the dome. We caught all the survivors, so at that point, the queen told us to create defensives such as doors, walls and such to stop them getting away. I can't entirely recall if the queen ordered this or not, but a drone or two started putting defensives, walls, doors and such along the roads between the domes when we were finished with the first one and was making a second frontal hive.

At that point, the pod came down and the marines ran straight inbetween two alien hives.

Edit: I'm just gonna use the map to show the domes that held the first and second hive.

http://s16.postimg.org/6dsk4gtjp/image.png

[Fisto]

I was the queen and it was recommended to me by the admin at the time to reply to this post.

As I read it, there are no restrictions on where a hive may be placed and a legitimate game tactic to create a hive in the domes. I can understand why being jumped so quickly can cause frustration but the pod is obviously riskier to use than the drop ship.

Aside from that, I think being able to put the hive in unexpected locations is important to prevent a stale meta. People can RP as much as they like and pretend they have no clue there's a cave full of xeno scum but it makes things more interesting if they genuinely do not know where a hive will show up.

For what it's worth, I only chose that place as it's the furthest dome from the main LZ. If a rule is put in about it that's fine but I do think it was a fun round.

[Joe4444]

yeah it was pretty cheap....the round felt like it lasted 5 mins and the marines had no time to react.They are spawned in the caves for a reason i feel...the aliens got like 20 new aliens in under 10 mins by the pod camping and it felt cheap.Even though it don't count as meta really because its not like the queen said"lets go build our hive over there because more hosts will come down".......but that's like saying "lets go check the caves for survivors" does not count as meta.

[Adameltablawy]

What happened was:

Queen did not want to build a hive in the caves because it's overdone.

Now, as far as I'm aware building nests in the domes is alright.

So we went to the most fortified available dome-the vault-but we couldn't melt in, so we went to the corporate dome.

We did nests and shit and infected monkeys there, and the queen gave the order to expand upon the hives along the roads. Eventually she hoped for nests in most of the domes with hivelord tunnels connecting them all.

When we went down a dome and started expanding in that (We also did scenic membrane-resin pathways between the domes) the Pod landed.

Instantly twelve aliens grabbed huggers, ran in, infected them all and dumped them in a hastily-created bowl of nests in the dome-I believe it was tcomms dome? Not sure.

Anyway, everything south became ours rather than north. The fact that the LZ for the pod was near the resin walls was coincidental-but when they landed because a lot of aliens were running around building nests and searching for hosts, the bags of meat in the metal box got noticed fast.

Then when the other Marines came in to try and rescue their friends, since we were already mostly t2 and had a bunch of hunters they got stomped and infected.

Then there was a small thing where infected hosts freed infected hosts and a bunch saxed off only to burst later.

Then eventually we invaded the FOB which was about two to three people. The shuttle docked, a whole ton of aliens quickly slaughtered everything onboard, and then we quickly slaughtered everyone above the ship ending in MAJOR VICTORY.


There was no meta here-it was just the Queen choosing a dome. She went for the vault dome first but since we couldn't melt in, we went down to corporate dome and our expansion happened to run into a bunch of stupid angry apes with guns who got infected very fast.

[Dyne]

Aside from that, I think being able to put the hive in unexpected locations is important to prevent a stale meta. People can RP as much as they like and pretend they have no clue there's a cave full of xeno scum but it makes things more interesting if they genuinely do not know where a hive will show up.

One double-part question.
Did you, or did you not, as a player knew where the pod LZ is?
Did you, or did you not, know it as a character?

If you answer "yes" on the first and "no" on the second it seems pretty meta to place a hive and defenses where you did, with defences being only from the LZ side, especially.
Lets not escalate the "meta your meta" arms race.

[Adameltablawy]

One double-part question.
Did you, or did you not, as a player knew where the pod LZ is?
Did you, or did you not, know it as a character?

If you answer "yes" on the first and "no" on the second it seems pretty meta to place a hive and defenses where you did, with defences being only from the LZ side, especially.
Lets not escalate the "meta your meta" arms race.

Not to answer for the queen, but again, we were just expanding along the domes.

It wasn't as if we chose the dome nearest to the LZ-we chose the Corporate dome, then colonized Telecomms, robotics, and engineering for ourselves, with interlinking bridges of membrane and walls.

Again, there was no one-facing direction for the walls or anything-it was just resin bridges. And before you ask, yes, this was in every direction, domes leading away from LZ and domes leading towards it.

And it wasn't as though the Queen ordered 'defend pods pls'. If someone built resin there it was their fault, not the queen's.

[Dyne]

I asked the Queen player for a reason. Other aliens have no free will, it was her decision, as admin answered to me.

[Abydos]

If we're going to complain regarding meta there, why is it when we got onto the Sulaco, practically ALL the doors leading to the shuttles were wielded shut, and the marines already had some defenses set up? No one knew we were coming up, and we didn't up until around 5-7 minutes. Was it a case of "Oh, they died, we know they are coming up here now, let's fority!"

[Dyne]

If we're going to complain regarding meta there, why is it when we got onto the Sulaco, practically ALL the doors leading to the shuttles were wielded shut, and the marines already had some defenses set up? No one knew we were coming up, and we didn't up until around 5-7 minutes. Was it a case of "Oh, they died, we know they are coming up here now, let's fority!"

If you have an issue with that- please make a separate topic on it, following the format.

[Fisto]

Even as a player OOC I have no idea if the pod will be used for the first marine wave. It isn't always used since it's up to the CO. Consider what might have happened if the pod was not used: the hive would have been in an exposed, easily-surrounded area that can be hit by an orbital bombard instead of the caves which is way more defensible and the marines would have found it extremely easily.

It was a gamble.

[Dyne]

Even as a player OOC I have no idea if the pod will be used for the first marine wave. It isn't always used since it's up to the CO. Consider what might have happened if the pod was not used: the hive would have been in an exposed, easily-surrounded area that can be hit by an orbital bombard instead of the caves which is way more defensible and the marines would have found it extremely easily.

It was a gamble.

You didnt answer my question directly, though you as a player obviously knew where LZ is, and "gambled" on them coming there.
As a character, though, a Queen has NO idea marines are even coming.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is metagaming in its finest.

[Fisto]

So is your belief xenos should be explicitly restricted to making a hive in the caves only?

That seems kind of boring to me.

[Dyne]

So is your belief xenos should be explicitly restricted to making a hive in the caves only?

That seems kind of boring to me.

My beliefs and your boredom are not part of the discussion.
You broke rule 5, and admitted it.
I formulated very clearly what my expected results are, its up to the administration now.

[Abydos]

He never stated that he broke any rules, he said, he knew WHERE the pod was but that didn't effect his decision at all. Aliens by the rules, are allowed to build their hive wherever they want. In the caves, in a dome. Because those are the only two locations they can pick, grass can't be weeded.

So he picked a dome in the south-west away from the caves, to break the meta. Caves are always used, he decided to do something different. And it just happened to be close to where the pod was. He then moved to have a second hive in another pod built, while other drones were weeding and preparing other places. And then the pod came down, some of you rushed out and started shooting at people and this was AFTER the shuttle had already arrived and we had ran into some, even lost some aliens to those on the shuttle.

And now you are claiming that he did ALL of this to metagame. What rule does it state that aliens are not allowed to build outside the caves? And if such a rule even exists, that means aliens cannot build nests and such at all outside of the caves. Pretty much giving marines an easy win. In my personal opinion and beliefs, you are just upset that you were one person who got infected / snatched when you landed near two alien hives. No one else but you is complaining.

[Dyne]

Rules are rules, one person "complaining" or a dozen.
And in this case part of the rule is not on paper, hence I believe it should be addressed.
Fisto admitted he knew where pod LZ is, and even was so kind to explain his line of thinking, so his OOC knowledge clearly guided his actions as Queen.

[Abydos]

So it would be the same as you knowing where the caves are, and your OOC knowledge clearly guiding your actions through the caves, and knowing the possible locations of where the alien hive is. If we're to use your line of thinking, every single alien / marine should be banned / punished because they know theses areas and locations OOCly, so they know where humans / aliens would hide, where they would get in, how they would get in.

So if the marines fully barricade the LZ, with walls, and everything. They should be punished for using OOC knowledge that they know, every area that the aliens can get to them from.

[Dyne]

So it would be the same as you knowing where the caves are, and your OOC knowledge clearly guiding your actions through the caves...

Lets stop right here.
Marines were banned previously for assaulting the caves head on with no previous recon so their characters know of this as a location, so yes,
the non-rhetoric part of your post is fully appropriate.

[UNDUS]

I had a round last week where the marines were ordered to 'rush to the cave complex and eliminate any enemies you may encounter there'. I adminhelped this but it didn't change. The guy was still talking on the radio for the rest of the round, he wasn't banned.

If deliberately ordering the marines to attack the alien hive at round start is cool, it should certainly be cool to spread the hive out to new areas even if those areas happen to encompass a landing zone.

[Dyne]

If it was a roundstart order that was fukken meta as well. Rules exist for both sides, you should have pressed the issue. Did an admin repond at all?

[Jack McIntyre]

I think that it was wrong and it shouldn't happen again otherwise this will just provoke the reaction of, if you spam our start we can spam yours. Two wrongs do not make a right in this case. It was wrong, the queen that round shouldn't do it, I mean I get it when it is research and such, but straight next to a LZ is pretty cheap. To avoid the whole, find then we rush the caves in the start to fine then we rush the lz's which just turns into a big pissing contest I think we drop the issue, however the queen should be warned not to do it again. Just a warning, no ban or anything otherwise this could just encourage bad rp on both sides.

[Ordukai]

I had a round last week where the marines were ordered to 'rush to the cave complex and eliminate any enemies you may encounter there'. I adminhelped this but it didn't change. The guy was still talking on the radio for the rest of the round, he wasn't banned.

I remember that. A couple people (You included) ahelped saying "My squad was just ordered to rush the caves and eliminate any enemies there". I spoke to the squad leader, he said the XO ordered him. I told him to find a different objective for his squad, maybe search the compound for survivors. Then I spoke to the XO, acting as overwatch. He said the commander told him to order his squad to "Head north to the caves", and that he had tacked on "Eliminate any enemies you find there".
I spoke some more with both of them, and since they both had clean notes I simply gave them a note, warning them once more about how evil metagaming is.
Suddenly I realize that as I was speaking to the XO and CO the squad had not, in fact, done what I suggested and had instead run straight to the caves, even the guy who made the ahelp, despite my specifically telling him not to participate in the meta. Nothing about what I did or directly said to you should have given you the impression that "Meta is cool".
That being lengthily said, please stay on topic to this topic. Feel free to message me or make another topic.

As for the actual subject at hand:
Without screenshots (Which I assume nobody has) it's not really possible to make an easy judgement call as to whether or not it was metagaming or not. However, if the queen did start in the dome and simply spread outward in a general fashion, that doesn't sound like metagaming. I don't believe that what fisto said about it being a gamble even OOC means that he made that gamble, if that makes sense.You're assuming that because he brought up the (Valid) point that marines don't always use the drop pods and that the aliens would be horribly out of position if they DIDN'T, it means that he took this into account and actually made that gamble, which is not necessarily true. Granted, the post he made making that point didn't really help his argument, but that's beside the point.
From what the aliens say, who surely know what they were doing and why better than you (No offense), they simply chose a spot and expanded outwards in a nonspecific fashoin, because the queen was OOCly bored of aliens being in the caves every round. It sounds like Coronel sided with the aliens because it wasn't meta, and if they didn't focus their efforts around the pod (which is certainly a less used mode of transportation for the marines anyways), Coronel is justified in making that decision.

Also if they were making decorations out of resin membrane, of all things, they're hardly meta-preparing for an all out assault by the marines from the pod. Again, I can't make a strong statement as to the meta-ness of their fortifications, as I wasn't there, but I'm sure Coronel knew what he was doing.

[coroneljones]

As i said,we (yes,i was a sentinel,call that biased if you want but thats how i knew alot about why they were there) moved to a new hive,after everyone got jelly,the queen attempted to enter the vault dome,but we cant acid those shutters so we moved to the nearest dome,wich was the corporate one,queu drones setting up bridges connecting the tcomms drone and such,while runners hunted the monkeys and survivors,the queen then started helping the drones remodeling the tcomms done,wich caused some sentinels to follow her...and then the marines arrived.
It wasnt meta,if the aliens wanted to meta they would have surrounded the pod with resin instead of just the road leading to the corporate and tcomms dome.