Doctors don't use weapons you say?

[snow5445]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_L._Salomon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Edwards_Walker

[HurttleTurtle]

Robust way to kill Aliens. "I'm doing Surgery on it's skull! Give me a second!" "WHOOPS! May have chopped it's head off. No problem!"

[apophis775]

Our doctors don't use guns, nope.

[HurttleTurtle]

They can kill aliens with a surgical drill. Make it robust

[snow5445]

Our doctors don't use guns, nope.

Even though they are first and foremost a rifleman?

[Steelpoint]

Why not just give Doctors a holster and some crummy M4A3?

It reinforces the idea your a military doctor on-board a military ship, not some random civilian who's on a different variant of Space Station 13 treating soldiers instead of assistants.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

Our doctors don't use guns, nope.

spoken like a man who doesn't actually play the game, i cant name a single round even in pre alpha where i played doctor and didn't have a gun, and you cant claim its meta either because i need the gun to protect medbay, the medbay staff and our patients from the MP's more then i do the aliens.

[snow5445]

I can't rember a single round as MP i did'nt carry a sidearm.

[Gamerofthegame]

It does seem something pretty strange to be fixated on.

[Wickedtemp]

Every argument I've seen AGAINST doctors using guns has been shot down...

"Hippocratic oath." Yeah, well oaths don't mean shit when your life is at stake, any sane person knows this. If I make an oath not to eat meat, but then some bad shit happens and now I'm starving to death, I'll eat what I can fucking get. I'd break that oath. Same goes for "Do no harm." I promise you, if a doctor was about to be eaten by some horrific alien creature and there was a gun nearby, they'd grab it and start fucking shooting. It's not about oaths at that point, it's common fucking sense.

"Yeah but they don't have training!" Let's be honest, they probably have at least minimal training, enough to handle an SMG if they had to. You don't work on a military vessel without picking something up. And aside from that, it's a given that everybody on the ship would know how to shoot a service pistol. Everyone. "Point, pull the trigger, press this lever when you're out of ammo, put another magazine in, pull back the slide at the top, resume shooting." Literally a few hours of practice and they'd have it down, if even that. There's even a shooting range in the hangar! Who's to say that my character -a doctor- hasn't spent some time shooting targets when there's nothing else to do?

"B-but... But what if they start Doctor Rambo-ing?!" If it's a problem, report it. And to be honest, medbay normally has a few incompetent doctors that would be better off as marines... People who didn't take the time to look at the wiki, normally.

Playing as MP, you know how many times I've ended up arresting a doctor for drug possession, only to find out they have sidearms as well? Fucking often.

Playing as a marine, you know how many times I've seen doctors, in a desperate attempt to save their patients, grab an SMG and start frantically shooting at the xenos? Fucking often. Sometimes they even repel the aliens a bit.

Playing as a doctor, you know how many times I've seen other doctors grab a sidearm when we know we were boarded by the aliens? Fucking often.

It's a stupid rule and it has no place on the server, and pretty much everyone -from what I'm seeing- agrees. It seems that very few doctors actually follow the rule anyways. I think it's time Apophis listens to the community on this one and just scraps that rule.

[Adjective]

Doctors having handguns has been denied multiple times and yet it still continues to be brought up. By the same people who continue to ignore the denial, I care to state.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

what do you mean doctors having handguns has been denied? they totally exist, its like oxygen, you can disbelieve in the existence of oxygen all you want because we cant physically see it but that doesn't mean it ISN'T THERE.

i bet you i could log on RIGHT NOW and ask the doctors if they're packing and they'll probably say yes.

[apophis775]

Firstly, SPOILERS: I'm not the origin of that rule.

Secondly, the reason we had to take guns away from doctors, is for BALANCE. Because these aren't your regular "medic" doctors, they are SKILLED SURGEONS. And in my own experience in the military, our Squadron (we were cavalry and do things weird, but it's basically a Batallion) surgeon didn't even go to a range to qualify or have a weapon assigned. He had a guard, assigned to protect him when there was movement, but he wasn't expected to use weapons.

In fact, in the military, it's standard practice for military doctors to not have weapons because it's a violation of the Geneva Convention, as well as their hippocratic oath.


I listen to the community on MANY different issues (though, suggestions are closed while i keep going through them, 200 down, 200 to go), but this is one that I believe makes sense. And, as far as claiming I don't "play on the server", I actually play under a second key so that I don't get bothered, and people won't recognize me. That's typically where I do most of my note-taking and "research" on the server.

So please, before you make assumptions that I don't play on the server or that I don't listen to the community, understand that I do. Also, understand that I don't just "willy nilly" make changes,

Because, here's the thing, if I make adjustments based on what the community wants EVERY TIME they want something, we'd have a competently different game that would be very shitty. Have you heard of Howard Moskowitz? Basically, research he did involving sauced determined that people don't actually know WHAT they want, until they have it. This is VERY important in game design. Yes, there are a LOT of things that people WANT in a game, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will give you an experience that is good. In fact, of the 200ish suggestions I recently checked through, I denied around 190 of them. It's partly my job, as the host (and a designer for CM) to cherrypick what would ACTUALLY be useful and beneficial to the game as a whole, and for our overall vision.

So please, don't assume I don't play or that I ignore the community as a whole.

I'm one of the most accessible server hosts out there.

Doctors don't get guns. It's that simple. Maybe, in the near future this will change as we adjust balances, but until the current redux of medical is finished, it'll probably stay how it is.

[WyattH]

I would disagree, there is a single gun that doctors should be allowed to use, the syringe gun. Also it does nothing to aliens at all so it can be only used to heal marines at distance anyway

[Wickedtemp]

Firstly, SPOILERS: I'm not the origin of that rule.

Secondly, the reason we had to take guns away from doctors, is for BALANCE. Because these aren't your regular "medic" doctors, they are SKILLED SURGEONS. And in my own experience in the military, our Squadron (we were cavalry and do things weird, but it's basically a Batallion) surgeon didn't even go to a range to qualify or have a weapon assigned. He had a guard, assigned to protect him when there was movement, but he wasn't expected to use weapons.

In fact, in the military, it's standard practice for military doctors to not have weapons because it's a violation of the Geneva Convention, as well as their hippocratic oath...

So we can station MP (Who I don't trust at ALL given past experiences of them barging in and flashing people for no reason) at medbay... Or, we can station a couple of marines (Who I trust slightly) at medbay...



But I do have a question regarding your experience in the military... The doctors in the military wouldn't be expected to use a weapon, but surely they would know HOW to, at least for a handgun. Pretty much anyone can use a handgun. Do you think that if it was between the choice of being violently ripped apart or trying to defend oneself with a sidearm, the doctors would just either A) Run away and not even /think/ of shooting even a little, or B) Lie down and die ?

And on the issue of balance, adding three more people with service pistols (SMG's at the absolute most) won't be affecting balance too often, especially considering they wouldn't have any armor on. Maybe a helmet at most, but even armed the doctors would be easy to take down, just a little bit harder than before.

[snow5445]

Every doctor in the marine corp is a rifleman. That is true 90% of the time.

[Aeleto]

Honestly, the rule feels useless as hell, even if ahelped, doctors keep using guns despite being told to not do so. Everytime Sulaco is boarded, they're bearing rifles and shtoguns. I'd be ok with SMGs and handguns.

[Minijar]

Perhaps like when aliens try to use guns, it comes up with a thing saying ''You have no idea how to use this'' and blocks you from using/picking it up.

[snow5445]

Perhaps like when aliens try to use guns, it comes up with a thing saying ''You have no idea how to use this'' and blocks you from using/picking it up.

So just remove doctors?

[Wickedtemp]

Perhaps like when aliens try to use guns, it comes up with a thing saying ''You have no idea how to use this'' and blocks you from using/picking it up.

For rifles and shotguns, maybe SMG's and magnums.

But they DO know how to shoot a service pistol, doesn't take an hour of time to learn and you could just learn from watching the marines.

[Wickedtemp]

A person who works and partly LIVES on a military vessel would know how to use a handgun. That's a given. No oath or fluff reason can prevent it, and again EVERY ARGUMENT BROUGHT UP WAS DISMANTLED.

Every reason against doctors using small firearms in self defense, taken out.

•Rambo doctors? Ahelp.
•Oaths? Self preservation and common sense takes priority, plus "Do no harm." wouldn't apply to aliens trying to kill you.
•Balance? Three or four people with pistols aren't going to really change anything. If the aliens are that weak, they shouldn't have boarded to begin with.
•No military training? Lets be honest here, chances are they have a bit of training, I just don't know what to details of that would be. However, you can shoot a handgun with hardly any training! Really, it isn't that hard for an adult who lives and works around guns to figure out how to use a pistol.

So... I think that if a doctor wants a handgun to use after they've seen the chest-bursters and the larva, I think it should be allowed.

In the event the Sulaco is boarded by aliens? Yes, get a handgun and get to medbay for incoming wounded, maybe put a helmet on so you won't get as hurt from a marine's bullet.

But a doctor carrying a handgun without reason? Brig time.

[snow5445]

Every single person in my beloved corp is for the rest of their life first and foremost a rifleman. Surgeons and doctors must qualify and be trained with the beretta. And M-16. I even showed you two people awarded the CMH for using heavy weapons in battle.

[HurttleTurtle]

This is becoming a major issue. All I've seen is people not listening to the Host. Who by all means is obviously getting pissed off at your constantly attacking the "Doctors don't need guns" everything Apophis has said is correct. Doctors do not use Guns. If you walk into a Hospital, you won't see a single Doctor packing. That's because they have security there to protect them. Also, if you paid any attention to actually Marines. You would know that every Marines gets combat and weapon training. And yes, Combat Medics. Hear that? Those are the Medics that come with you on your death walks. Carry a handgun to protect themselves and their patient. But there's a catch, shooting someone while you're a doctor sacrifices the Geneva Protection and you can be in Major trouble.

They're keeping it where Doctors don't get weapons because they don't need weapons. If the Military Police actually did their job and protect the Medical Staff then they should be fine. And if you're going to throw the Combat Medics out there, those Medics shouldn't even be on the front line. They should be in the FoB caring for the wounded.

Stop trying to argue a topic that has already been argued and denied multiple times. Doctors do not get guns, it's that simple. And last thing I will add, Apophis always plays on the server so next time you tell him that he doesn't and that makes him not know what he's talking about. Remember that incuring the wrath of the Host is not really a smart idea.

Anyways, I've said my peace.

[Wickedtemp]

"If the Military Police did their job..."

And we all know how that turns out. I can't count the number of rounds playing as MP where it was just me, or just me and one other officer.

And I already addressed the oaths and Geneva Convention and all that... When it comes between shooting something and breaking a rule or dying terribly, any reasonable human (unless they have a super strong religious reason and they become martyrs) will fight back.

[Sebro]

Why not just the handgun? It's that easy, JUST THE FUCKING HANDGUN. Nothing else.