Youbar's Ban Appeal

[Stalin]

Byond ID: Youbar

Character name: Wilhelm Eberhardt

Admin who banned you: Apophis775

Initial duration: Permanent

Duration remaining: Permanent

Reason for ban: Multikeyer

Your appeal, including evidence (an www.imgur.com album is recommended for multiple screenshots):
This appeal is seven days earlier than I intended to make it, but with the latest Halloween update, I couldn't resist. The time I've experienced off the server has given me plenty of moments to think about my actions, and my eagerness to rejoin the community has been exacerbated by the aforementioned update. I'm hoping to experience it for myself, and not through a few albums of imgur pictures sent to me.

This will be the second permanent ban I've appealed so far. My first was during New Eden Station's reign. From here on, my memory gets foggy, and despite my attempts to dig up information from the admins and from the forums, all I can tell is that there was a prolonged break from January to August, the month I was permabanned once more after numerous cases of insulting admins and griefing in-game. I'm a toxic player, and I don't belong here, that much is clear, but I'm hoping for a bit (even an inkling) of forgiveness.
After my August ban, I took a two week break to rethink my actions, and how I'd acted. What I was doing wasn't kind or sincere, and nobody was amused by it. At that point, there was no coming back. I was renowned as a shitty player, so I decided to take a chance and multikey - I was going to come back as a better player. Right from the get go, I made a conscious effort to be nice to others in-game and OOCly, and ensured my character would swear as little as often. I was doing the polar opposite of what my previous character, Ludwig Austerlitz, had done. I felt that he was a complete reflection of my personality and I wanted to change that.
With that, I introduced myself to numerous admins and as soon as my alternate forum account, FriedKetchup, had reached the two week mark, I applied for adminship and was accepted for trial. This was my chance to make up for my wrong doings, and every day I ensured I was on for at least two hours to maintain the relatively grief-free status of the server. Nobody, except for perhaps UnknownMurder, had a complaint against me. I was quite "liberal" so to speak, choosing instead to slap people on the wrist and a stern talking to, looking at things from the perspective as much as possible. In fact, I once spoke to a blatant griefer, and I asked, "You're about to ruin any chances of getting back onto the most unique game mode of Space Station 13. I'd stop what you're doing, and play normally." They did, and I gave them a note, but I never found out if they became a regular.
I'm not trying to excuse my actions at all here, and I should have been upfront about who I was right from the get go.
My plan was, on the 15th of December, to reveal myself as Youbar, and to hopefully gain the forgiveness of the community. What was there to lose? I could stay permabanned forever, or exploit a hole in BYOND's banning system to gain myself another chance. Fact is, I wouldn't be here now, on this account, writing out my appeal if I hadn't done what I did.
Anyway, this is about the time I get the complaint against me by Gelonvia, and how I made her feel uncomfortable. It was a solid argument against me, albeit dramatised, and I was removed from the team, my chances of getting a "grand reckoning" ruined. In rage, I hop on the BYOND pager and unleash a flurry of insults at Gelonvia. I blew a lid, and in what I saw as my final moments on the server, I decided to go out with a bang and stir up a bit of drama. If anything, this is the part I most regret, simply due to the drama it stirred up. I lost Speedybast as a friend, and the community shunned me even more than they did when I was simply griefing away with sarcastic remarks.
To be honest, all I can do is reference this apology. Yes, my multikeying was wrong. My deceit that resulted in me getting on the admin team temporarily was wrong. My attacks against Gelonvia were wrong. It's been less than a month, I know. I should have saved this for December, but I can't help it. As much as I trolled the community in the past, I want to come back. It's a bit ironic that I was telling a player off for removing themselves from Colonial Marines in the manner that he did, and then proving myself to be a hypocrite only a few days later. I know this won't be received positively, but this is my plea to you, the admins. I've tried my best to make up for what I've done by helping out on the Wikipedia and with Infernus's project, and by providing positive responses to people in the minichat, but there's only so much I can do with this forum account.
Please, let me come back. Put whatever restrictions you like down. Permaban on first offense? Fine. I just want a third chance. I'm sorry, but I can't seem to express that fact as much as I wish I could.

[Tetsip]

I remember you Youbar, and I also remember giving you the benefit of the doubt at every turn that your actions were actions of a satirist simply being a dick to prove a point. Over the course of a month you proved me very wrong, posting things toxic that targeted other players in the community, or at the very least were aimed at getting a reaction out of the community.

Do I think you should get another chance? It will be your third chance, but I do think you should be given another chance.

Do I think you should get that chance now, before the Halloween update? No. That's what a punishment is. When you got permabanned, you deserved every ounce of it like you said yourself, and that means missing out on the good shit.

I'm half-and-half on this one. I think he should be unbanned, but not before December.

[UnknownMurder]

I would had preferred you had not to 'reveal' yourself as Youbar while being Ketchup. Yes, I've never had a problem with you being in staff. However, now that your name (Youbar) is known. Everyone would be biased against you because of your alleged nature. Now that afterward you became a 'better' person while showing yourself on Forum other than stalking.

I would advise some changes to make yourself a better person:
-Change your Forum Name.
-Try not to get involved with things, but commenting are fine.
-If you see someone/something you don't like, ignore it. Don't bother them.
-Take some regular breaks from CM (2-3 Days a Week)
-Ensure people has fun whilst doing so, you may not have fun. But it is a good thing others are.

It may seem like expectations, but only advices. You don't have to follow them. However, if you can. Please do so.

I can tell he is a changed man, but being unbanned for Halloween isn't worth an unbanned. You should wait some longer. I don't mean to offend.

I know I don't have a say, but I know who you actually are.

Neutral.

[Feweh]

Too soon to be unbanned after being dealt TWO perma-bans.

We've had people wait way longer for less and been perma-banned for far less serious things.

However, you are the only person who has shown any sincere regret or form of change.

I believe your ban should be reduced from a perma to something with a set amount of days.

[Stalin]

I can tell he is a changed man, but being unbanned for Halloween isn't worth an unbanned. You should wait some longer. I don't mean to offend.

Too soon to be unbanned after being dealt TWO perma-bans. I believe your ban should be reduced from a perma to something with a set amount of days.

Do I think you should get that chance now, before the Halloween update? No. That's what a punishment is. When you got permabanned, you deserved every ounce of it like you said yourself, and that means missing out on the good shit.

I'd be extremely happy to have a set date for my ban to expire. Even if I miss the Halloween update and the ban would carry on for a while longer, I'd rather be able to rejoin the community once more instead of being nearly completely omitted from it. As it stands, what I did wasn't right, and if you believe the punishment should be carried out for a longer duration of time, so be it.

[Lostmixup]

Youbar, honestly you need to really FEEL the effects of your actions. You haven't even really been gone all that long. I personally think you should stay perma'd till at the VERY least February. After that, then I'll believe you won't do anything like this again.

[Stalin]

Youbar, honestly you need to really FEEL the effects of your actions. You haven't even really been gone all that long. I personally think you should stay perma'd till at the VERY least February. After that, then I'll believe you won't do anything like this again.

February? That's a long time. I understand my actions weren't necessarily kind to anybody, but with this appeal I wanted to make it clear that I'm intent on changing. I understand the fact that people are permanently banned for much less than what I have done, but it's often as a result of them refusing to understand and accept what they did wrong, shown with their actions and their soon to be appeal. For nearly a month, I've made a positive contribution to the community (I intend to continue to do so) and it's a bit disheartening to be told to stay away for another four months.
If I am to miss the halloween update, so be it. If I am to stay banned for a while longer, so be it. I'm not in the position to be negotiating this, I understand that, but early next year would be an incredibly long time for me.

[Lostmixup]

February? That's a long time. I understand my actions weren't necessarily kind to anybody, but with this appeal I wanted to make it clear that I'm intent on changing. I understand the fact that people are permanently banned for much less than what I have done, but it's often as a result of them refusing to understand and accept what they did wrong, shown with their actions and their soon to be appeal. For nearly a month, I've made a positive contribution to the community (I intend to continue to do so) and it's a bit disheartening to be told to stay away for another four months.
If I am to miss the halloween update, so be it. If I am to stay banned for a while longer, so be it. I'm not in the position to be negotiating this, I understand that, but early next year would be an incredibly long time for me.

That's the point. It is a very long time.

[ChickenShizNit8]

So this is coming from someone that Youbar picked on extensively IC from his character...

I have talked to him some, and I do actually think he wants back in. Now I mean, no, maybe not RIGHT AWAY, but I do think we should allow him in. And remember, he DID pick on me a lot IC when I was new and all, but as we all know Bigby is an ass too.

I think he could be given another chance, maybe not now, and depending on staff, maybe not ever, but that's where I stand.

[Stalin]

I think he could be given another chance, maybe not now, and depending on staff, maybe not ever, but that's where I stand.

Thank you, Chicken. Perhaps I don't deserve an unban right now, having to sit aside for the Halloween update I'd love to be a part of, but getting another chance as you say would be wonderful, hopefully without a long wait.

[Feweh]

Reminder to follow the Ban Appeal rules.. We've had a lot of Non-staff personal opinions and people asking questions that aren't even relevant to this appeal.

[apophis775]

I can lean either way with this.

Really, as Ketchup youbar WAS a much better player than he had historically been as Youbar. Other than the one incident which got a little strange (which, had it been someone who had a longer history doing it, probably wouldn't have raised a billion red flags) he had done well as a moderator and a productive member of the community.

Which, I do encourage people to reform, but, I can't exactly reward the MASSIVE level of SHENANIGANS that resulted once it was revealed.

So, I'm not really sure what to do, but, based on my personal encounters with youbar (which, despite the permabans and bans for in-game actions, have never really been salty or anything similar") I think that he DOES want to come back, and that we should eventually allow him. But the date that happens, is another matter.

Also, inb4 SAS explodes.

[SASoperative]

I am a nuke waiting to explode at the thought of this all but at the moment I really do not know how to handle this... You have just pushed me to different directions multiple times from hating you to liking you to hating you. Its a roller coaster of emotions I am feeling towards this but I honestly dunno. I will need time to think about this

[Stalin]

I am a nuke waiting to explode at the thought of this all but at the moment I really do not know how to handle this... You have just pushed me to different directions multiple times from hating you to liking you to hating you. Its a roller coaster of emotions I am feeling towards this but I honestly dunno. I will need time to think about this

Take all the time you need (within reason, of course). It's fair enough that you, or anybody, holds a mixed opinion of me, and I'm sure you'll need time to sort through them all before making a final decision.

On a side note, within two days (I think?), it'll have been a month since I was banned. Hopefully it won't be too much longer from this point.

[Jack McIntyre]

I said I would stay neutral when you asked and I am going to keep it civil besides when we had our argument or discussion before, but you say that you post this appeal now to play on the Halloween server, I'm sorry to say, but for a punishment to work you kinda of have to lose out on stuff you would normally if you behaved and followed the rules.

Secondly you said "within reason" now I get it, it's a expression, but I don't think telling a host or head admin to think things over within reason. I don't know just feels like wrong choice of words I suppose. I just feel like if it is someone choice to have banned you, they get all the time in the world if they want to un ban you.

Finally I just don't know, your subtext I suppose of that of someone who is trying to show off their intelligence and self control and it bugs me. It just doesn't seem real to be honest nor does it stop you from just acting like this due to you saying the reason you created the fried ketchup account was to kinda of reveal that it was the player that has been perma banned, sort of a ha ha moment I suppose not sure I get you yet. So I will say netural,but leaning towards -1 since you seem to want to rush your punishment and get back to the fun stuff. As I said sort of makes the punishment since you got out of your last perma by multi keying.

[Stalin]

I'm sorry to say, but for a punishment to work you kinda of have to lose out on stuff you would normally if you behaved and followed the rules.

Fair enough. I wasn't hoping to be unbanned immediately, but it never hurts to add in a stretch goal.

Secondly you said "within reason" now I get it, it's a expression, but I don't think telling a host or head admin to think things over within reason. I don't know just feels like wrong choice of words I suppose. I just feel like if it is someone choice to have banned you, they get all the time in the world if they want to un ban you.

The "within reason" wasn't me meaning to say for him to be excessively kind, but as a way of saying don't take too long thinking about it (e.g a reasonable timeframe of maybe a week or two.). I'm confused about how to interpret this.

nor does it stop you from just acting like this due to you saying the reason you created the fried ketchup account was to kinda of reveal that it was the player that has been perma banned, sort of a ha ha moment I suppose not sure I get you yet.

The whole idea of the FriedKetchup account was to expose myself as a helpful member of the community, doing away with the previous negative views of me. I might have been removed from any position I was in at the time of me revealing that, but I was guessing that I wouldn't be banned. It wasn't the right thing to do, but it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It gave me a chance to make up for all the times I was disrespectful to staff and players, even if it was only short lived and resulted in a sticky ban.

[Allan1234]

As much as I hate youbars guts because he not only insulted me but other staff members who I consider friends I must express that fired was a vary helpful member of the community and was a good staff member... and because of that I will say that I would like to see him un banned.

Yes that's right me, quite possible the staff member who hates him the most, and I want this because I think he really wants back in. so yes... I vote to unban him.

[coroneljones]

Youbar appears to be...trying to redeem himself
He was actually pretty cool as fried until the whole targetting thing
Maybe one last chance? AFTER halloween maybe,its still a punishment

[Feweh]

See theres a odd way of looking at this as well.

What about all the other multi-keyers who came back and were caught ban evading? Perhaps they would of been better community members given the chance as well.

Should we really look upon Youbar's "Fried" account as a positive? Personally I think breaking another rule shouldnt validate being a better community member and its unfair to the others who were Perma banned without the opportunity at a second chance. After all... if we allowed that then perhaps wed have different views on other players who came back as "improved" and "redeemed" players.. they just never had the same opportunity.

Honestly, Youbar went from perma banned.. multi keyed and actually became a good community member. However somehow even with a second chance all while RULE BREAKING and having a second opportunity THAT NO ONE ELSE would of gotten he still managed to get fired from staff and create MORE drama for everyone.

Not once, but fucking twice.

Food for thought people.

[apophis775]

What happpened with his multi-key, was that whoever placed the ban, did so improperly, so it probably got purged (again, only me, rahl, and SAS can place permabans, others need apply in the permaban staff application area).

Talking to him, he noticed he could still join a month or so after his ban, and thought it would be best to make a new identity to be a better person.

[FatalEYES]

Also, inb4 SAS explodes.

I am a nuke waiting to explode

Fucking lol.

Back on track though, I honestly never interacted with Youbar personally, I always just heard how "horrible" he was so I just kinda left things as that. However, Ketchup did fine as a MODERATOR, albeit a bit...obsessed with one situation, but he did fine none the less. All in all though, a ban is a supposed to be a punishment so I believe that you should remain banned for at least some time, maybe until January at least. That's just how I feel about this whole matter.

[Stalin]

Feweh

What about all the other multi-keyers who came back and were caught ban evading? Perhaps they would of been better community members given the chance as well.

People are often caught ban evading after breaking the rules. Unless I missed out on a certain admin verb, IPs aren't logged in a database and matched with previously banned keys. Chances are there is somebody out there who came back on another key, who changed their IP, and are now enjoying their time on the server now. This isn't necessarily a defence on my part, however, but I came back with good intentions rather than to grief again. I never accumulated a single note.

Should we really look upon Youbar's "Fried" account as a positive?

My alternate account shouldn't be viewed as a reason to support me being unbanned, but an example of change. I could have abused that account, and attacked staff members and players alike until I was caught, but I wasn't interested this time around. I wanted to do two key things: a. make up for my wrongs, and b. "redeem" myself.

Honestly, Youbar went from perma banned.. multi keyed and actually became a good community member. However somehow even with a second chance all while RULE BREAKING and having a second opportunity THAT NO ONE ELSE would of gotten he still managed to get fired from staff and create MORE drama for everyone.

To quote Apophis:

Other than the one incident which got a little strange (which, had it been someone who had a longer history doing it, probably wouldn't have raised a billion red flags) he had done well as a moderator and a productive member of the community.

The key reason for the drama was that what looked like a decent member of the community appeared to be stalking somebody. If I mirrored my previous actions (shitposting, etc) in my alternate account, it wouldn't appear so suspicious.

Allan + Coronel Jones

so yes... I vote to unban him.

AFTER halloween maybe,its still a punishment

Thank you for your support. I'd love to have my ban set to expire as soon as possible, but it would be fairer to keep it in place until the end of November. I'd hate to miss the Christmas update!

[Adjective]

Youbar was always insane back in the day. But with the FriedKetchup thing, I could tell he had a sincere reason for doing so. I would like think of it as one of those things people do without thinking of all the possible outcomes. During my online times watching him playing as his FriedKetchup account, I had no complaints.

I do not support him having an instant-unban, but I am in favor of him having a "probation" of sorts. Sort of playing on Coronel's idea, however not after Halloween but possibly Thanksgiving or Christmas and putting it off as his final chance.

[Jack McIntyre]

You bring up fair points Youbar and you are a smart guy, I just want to raise the point that maybe you learned that if you didn't want a perma ban like before you would act how you needed to act to avoid it. Why then when you put in your apology that you were going to unveil yourself? I feel like I would be frustrated that you would have the feeling of beating the system. Now I get it, you seem more in control and a better person, I usually prepare for the worst so don't mind me, I would just prefer to be on the safe side.

[Stalin]

I just want to raise the point that maybe you learned that if you didn't want a perma ban like before you would act how you needed to act to avoid it.

When I first started trolling the server, I honestly don't know what drove me. It might have been pent up frustration from administrating at Yogstation, or it might have been that I simply enjoyed the frustration of the staff here. I feel as if I should know, but I honestly don't - it was all just "fun" at the time. When I was finally banned, Apophis contacted me and we had a brief conversation. I was honestly surprised - after all I had done, here he was, speaking to me in a calm and civil manner. I don't remember what was exchanged, but I made an effort to reform myself and when given the chance, hopped on the server to demonstrate that I had done just that. At every turn, I tried my best to avoid being contacted by administrators, but the complaint against me was a turning point for me that made me act in a fashion that'd get me banned again. It demolished everything I had worked towards - I was at square one again. I snapped, somebody got even more suspicious of me, and linked my current IP with my old account. It wasn't right, I know, but it was frustrating for me.
TL;DR: I consciously made an effort to avoid breaking rules, but snapped after the complaint as it undid everything I accomplished.