Player Report: Gelonvia

[Toroic]

Your Byond Key: Toroic

Your character name: I play xeno. Usually Hivelord 1-1000

Their character name: Vara'ule Kv'var-de

Their Byond key (optional - if you know it): Gelonvia

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 12:30am-1:30am

What rule(s) were broken:

Hunting Worthy Game: When hunting, the hunter must be sure that his prey is considered game, and lawful to kill. To be considered "prey" and be lawful to kill the prey much fit the following requirements:
Can defend itself and/or is able to kill the hunter (SSD is a big no-no, same with marines who are in crit and bleeding out with some exceptions listed below)
Not linked to other lives (e.g. if you come across a marine dragging another marine alone, neither are prey, unless they were previously engaged as prey).
Is not Struck with diseases or injuries preventing a honorable hunt (someone who has lost limbs and not had them replaced yet).

Description of the incident:

I was a hivelord on the ship, and was killed by the predator who was sitting in the showers in stealth after I slashed an apc. Another xeno dragged me away, and I did not recover from the stun before dying via predator claw. This was a predator that had sided with humans all game, and there was also a non-stunned carrier with me that was not stunned at the time of the attack.

This was my first and only contact with the predator other than seeing them in the firing range while moving through the tunnel east of the hanger.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Should be there in the logs. I was dead too fast to get a screenshot. The order of events was electrical stun (no marines in line of sight) uncloak, repeated stabs, and then I was dead.

How you would punish the accused: This is not how predator should be played, especially by someone who "wrote the guide" on it. Predator jobban.

[Gelonvia]

Sorry dear, but your leaving out fair bits of info and don't seem to understand the Honor Code either.

You were one of my targets from the beginning, after you slashed that APC you put yourself in a bad position regardless considering you had a Carrier of all things to protect you, and carriers are very strong against Predators. I even gave you a higher chance by only using my wristblades which are really only slightly stronger then a Marine Combat Knife. You are a T3 in a large Pack, you are always worth prey considering all of you did attack me.

Finally I never sided with anyone! Infact I forced the humans to pay me back after poaching the Queen hide from me, the bargain was I get the next Queens hide, Marines may not touch her, and all the rest are theirs. You being stunned for only half the time while your Carrier buddy defends you is not my concern.

Now lets add onto that, this was a round SAS was there for and I had a Moderator observing me as every Predator has during protocol during play. The Moderator provided intel and gave me tips sense I don't have my admin powers to be able to check how many Aliens vs Marines are left.

So in the end result is, you are prey, you were in a pack, you were fighting and actually did get up, I used my weakest weapon, and your entire hive has been after me sense the beginning. Don't engage someone and complain when you die, I can't do anything about the Marines that round not engaging me whether it's meta or not cause I am not staff but honestly, this is a game, don't get massively salty just cause you died fairly.

Have a wonderful day!

[Kyrac]

-1, Like really, any xenomorph besides Larva is proper-prey.

[Toroic]

Sorry dear, but your leaving out fair bits of info and don't seem to understand the Honor Code either.

You were one of my targets from the beginning, after you slashed that APC you put yourself in a bad position regardless considering you had a Carrier of all things to protect you, and carriers are very strong against Predators. I even gave you a higher chance by only using my wristblades which are really only slightly stronger then a Marine Combat Knife. You are a T3 in a large Pack, you are always worth prey considering all of you did attack me.

Using wristblades vs a different weapon doesn't count for anything when a target is unaware of you and then stunned 100-0. Any weapon has the same result.

I don't know if the carrier slashed at you, but they did not lob huggers at you, and even if they did that wouldn't make me capable of fighting back, it would simply let you freely attack them.

Finally I never sided with anyone! Infact I forced the humans to pay me back after poaching the Queen hide from me, the bargain was I get the next Queens hide, Marines may not touch her, and all the rest are theirs. You being stunned for only half the time while your Carrier buddy defends you is not my concern.

Objectively untrue. I was stunned the entire time (logs will not show any attacks, shoves, building walls, or other defensive or offensive measures.) You killed two queens that round along with many other xenos (compared with how many humans?) went to help a marine out of one of your alien traps, traveled with them on the dropship, had an oxygen tank on your back from the sulaco, and apparently was in contact with them to the degree you could order them not to attack the queen. Which by the way, costs the marines nothing.

If you're trying to say you were a neutral third party, that is objectively false. You were killing xenos all match, so the only other option is siding with humans, which isn't against the rules.

Now lets add onto that, this was a round SAS was there for and I had a Moderator observing me as every Predator has during protocol during play. The Moderator provided intel and gave me tips sense I don't have my admin powers to be able to check how many Aliens vs Marines are left.

I'm not sure how a moderator feeding you ooc info is relevant. Pred isn't a staff-only position.

So in the end result is, you are prey, you were in a pack, you were fighting and actually did get up, I used my weakest weapon, and your entire hive has been after me sense the beginning. Don't engage someone and complain when you die, I can't do anything about the Marines that round not engaging me whether it's meta or not cause I am not staff but honestly, this is a game, don't get massively salty just cause you died fairly.

Have a wonderful day!

The crux of the issue is that I did not get up, and was stunned the entire time. If the predator code of conduct is only meant to apply to marines, then the wording should be updated. As written, it's a clear violation of rule 1.

The entire hive being after you all game... what did you expect when you kill a queen and then are obviously working with humans? You were an enemy.

Had a marine done the same thing, it wouldve been 100% fair. Neither marines nor xenos have an honor code. Of course, they also don't have a huge health pool, multiple weapons, armor that is immune to nesting and a facemask that is highly resistant to huggers.

Again, I was not able to defend myself, so rule 1 was broken. Logs will show that I was dead and had made no aggressive or defensive moves between the apc being cut and my death.

[coroneljones]

when a target is unaware of you and then stunned 100-0.


Wait wait wait
How were you unaware of the pred?
Xenos can see them even while cloaked
And you knew one was out there since you mentioned the kills
So it seems a bit like you rushed the APC without checking the area

[Mac]

Rule 1 of the predator code of honor is meant to stop injured players or SSD players. It isn't referencing stuns.

[Toroic]

when a target is unaware of you and then stunned 100-0.


Wait wait wait
How were you unaware of the pred?
Xenos can see them even while cloaked
And you knew one was out there since you mentioned the kills
So it seems a bit like you rushed the APC without checking the area

They were lying down in the shower room and not moving, which makes it much more difficult to see a predator as the light outline blends in.

I had a fairly low chance of survival in this situation, it's fully within a predator's honor code to heavy plasma caster a hivelord to death, or to use an alien trap and then kill them.

But the honor code clearly states that hunting helpless, crippled, or dying targets is not how it is meant to be.

Had I been able to get up and fight back at any point, it would've been a fair kill.

Rule 1 of the predator code of honor is meant to stop injured players or SSD players. It isn't referencing stuns.

It gives injured or SSD as examples, but what it states is unable to defend itself or fight back. It also describes a marine dragging another marine as neither being prey.

[Gelonvia]

-1, Like really, any xenomorph besides Larva is proper-prey.

I actually go out of my way not to attack any T1's unless they specifically engage me first, Vara'ule has already acquired enough T1 Hides, they mean RPly nothing to her. Although, it sure as hell is funny to watch a runner stare at me, pounce at me and slam into a grille as I step to the side before turning and running away. Gives me enough time to roar and them and chase them about 6 tiles and giggle to myself as they keep running and running.

[Jack McIntyre]

-1 just due to the fact when I play predator when a xeno I'm hunting gets stunned for whatever reason or I have been hunting them and they keep running or back up keeps coming, I'm going to kill you when I see a time to strike. It is after all the best way to hunt, find the right time and strike.

[Toroic]

-1 just due to the fact when I play predator when a xeno I'm hunting gets stunned for whatever reason or I have been hunting them and they keep running or back up keeps coming, I'm going to kill you when I see a time to strike. It is after all the best way to hunt, find the right time and strike.

It's not an issue if you engage them before or after the stun, the issue is that I was stunned prior to decloak, and killed before having any chance to fight back or defend myself.

My understanding of predator is not that it's meant to be an excuse to murderbone, and are balanced around a code of honor. If murderboning from predators is allowed, then their power should be reduced in proportion.

This is a straightforward violation of rule 1. I was unable to defend myself from before the moment the predator uncloaked until my xeno died.

So yes, it is inconvenient when your target doesn't just lay down and die for you. That's why predators have stealth and traps and ranged weapons, and in exchange for that power an honor code.

All the various aspects of the honor code are about giving the prey fair warning, the ability to defend itself, and having the prey be uninjured and uncrippled. Not a good chance, due to the predator's being more dangerous than any other living creature in this game, but a chance.

[Feweh]

Honor Code was broken, if what Toroic says is correct.
The amount of people in this thread who don't understand the honor code themselves is ridiculous. This is a clear violation of Predator rules and it's scary how many people in this thread -1ed this.

As he said, he hadn't PREVIOUSLY engaged the predator. So he didn't run beforehand and his first encounter with the Predator was being Stabbed WHILE INCAPACITATED then there is a rule violation.

Even if Casca was hunting him all game he was NOT fair prey while stunned and unable to fight. The same applies to wounded marine's unable to defend themselves or injured.
The only time you can engage a wounded target as a Predator is if you INFLICTED the damage in combat with them earlier. Slashing a APC not only WOUNDS marines/aliens it also stuns them, which falls directly under NOT harming/attack wounded prey. The biggest OBVIOUS give-away for aliens is the fact that they lay down on the ground, which is a obvious give-away and no-excuse as to why he was attacked.

As well, something to understand... Just because the entire hive attacks you... it doesn't give you the right to freely engage ANY alien you see later. Marine's engage Predator's on-sight and this gives Predator's no right to cut them all down based upon the actions of previous Humans. Honor code is given based upon each INDIVIDUAL's action and is not based upon entire group's actions. This is obvious negated when you're surrounded or being attacked by multiple hostiles.. However, this DOES NOT apply here.. as Casca "supposedly" de-cloaked and WENT AFTER the hivelord AFTER they were stunned.

Very clear Predator rule's were broken here, that's if Toroic's story holds up. I'm not saying Casca is guilty, but if log's show no previous engagement between the Hivelord and the Predator AND he was killed while incapacitated then this is a massive rule break.

[Westhybrid]

First off, Gel, don't cite me as "giving you intel" and what not. I only messaged you once to politely and subtly urge you not to babysit the marines, which you tend to do as a Predator. What I told you was that the Aliens were already at a big enough disadvantage that they didn't need a Predator added on to helping the Marines on board their ship, and that hunting indiscriminately would've been more fair in that scenario.

Secondly, citing SAS and I as relevant info is urking. It's not like we gave you our blessing, we did not counsel anything you did that round. SAS was in-game and playing, as in, not monitoring your actions, and by the time you were fighting Aliens on the Sulaco I was too busy putting out all the other fires along the way.

As for hunting the Hivelord, I'm having trouble recalling the situation. I saw part of it happen, but only the end result with the Carrier dragging a stunned Toroic out into the cargo bay, where Toroic was still killed by Gel. As far as I could tell, and I wouldn't quote me on this just yet because I had to jump back and forth dealing with ahelps, Gel was mostly just waiting around in the Mess Hall, which transitioned into her killing Toroic.

This issue should be discussed more, and I'll try to locate the logs.

[Lostmixup]

If the logs show no previous engagement, then I think gel is in the wrong.

[Stivan34]

when a target is unaware of you and then stunned 100-0.


Wait wait wait
How were you unaware of the pred?
Xenos can see them even while cloaked
And you knew one was out there since you mentioned the kills
So it seems a bit like you rushed the APC without checking the area

Xenos only see them through walls.

[coroneljones]

Xenos only see them through walls.

Still,he likely had to walk through the mess hall and briefing,wich block some areas of cryo,wich he could have spotted the pred in

[Toroic]

Still,he likely had to walk through the mess hall and briefing,wich block some areas of cryo,wich he could have spotted the pred in

We knew there was a pred on the ship, and I saw them in the firing range on the lower level. Myself, the queen, and the carrier then went up the east ladder to engineering and started to weed/egg in some places. Several minutes passed.

Carrier and I then went down the ladder by the requisitions office spreading weeds and then west into the showers.

I saw marines walking around outside, and believe I broke a light before deciding it was more efficient to just slash the apc. I dropped a weed, slashed the apc, and then the predator decloaked. The carrier dragged me east into the room by the ladder, and I was dead before the stun wore off.

[Stivan34]

This is not the first time we complain Toroic, She broke the code before this.

[Gelonvia]

Still,he likely had to walk through the mess hall and briefing,wich block some areas of cryo,wich he could have spotted the pred in

I did, I went straight through briefing, stood in the messhall, turned invisible in his line of sight as I walked past a drone who turned and ran, then I opened the double airlocks on the eastern side to get into Cyro and walked up, the Carrier was so aware of me they were trying to block me and strafing around me before dragging him off.

He immediately stood up after he got past the the maintance western side door into cargo from cyro in which case I finally got to fight although I did get 3 slashes off with my wristblades. After he got up there was 4 more wrist blade slashes as he got pinned between me and the carrier blocking the hivelords exit before he collapsed allowing me to make another final two blows leading to me having to do 9 slashes in total with my wristblades. (Which was hilarious cause I have killed Queens with a combat knife as a marine in less.) So yeah, he had full opportunity before slashing that APC to get away or NOT slash that APC.

[Gelonvia]

This is not the first time we complain Toroic, She broke the code before this.

Last time you complained the staff and playerbase got involved explaining to the only two of you who complained that you were incorrect and didn't know the honor code, it's why it was placed in the recycling bin. Either way, not my problem still, everyone who has played Predator has a complaint over their heads because of the toxic salt about death, this is why in these cases I just sit back and only speak when needed, the rest of the playerbase and staff with experience point out the flaws in the complaints for me after I say my words.

Anyways, have a good afternoon!

[Gelonvia]

Still,he likely had to walk through the mess hall and briefing,wich block some areas of cryo,wich he could have spotted the pred in

And you mean, "She" Coronel, she. x3

[coroneljones]

And you mean, "She" Coronel, she. x3

Ment the hivelord

[Feweh]

I did, I went straight through briefing, stood in the messhall, turned invisible in his line of sight as I walked past a drone who turned and ran, then I opened the double airlocks on the eastern side to get into Cyro and walked up, the Carrier was so aware of me they were trying to block me and strafing around me before dragging him off.

He immediately stood up after he got past the the maintance western side door into cargo from cyro in which case I finally got to fight although I did get 3 slashes off with my wristblades.After he got up there was 4 more wrist blade slashes as he got pinned between me and the carrier blocking the hivelords exit before he collapsed allowing me to make another final two blows leading to me having to do 9 slashes in total with my wristblades. (Which was hilarious cause I have killed Queens with a combat knife as a marine in less.) So yeah, he had full opportunity before slashing that APC to get away or NOT slash that APC.

I'm sorry Gel, but you've admitted to attacking a prey that was unable to defend itself. This was not a honorable kill and you've broken the honor code, this is a legit player complaint.

Even if the Hivelord saw you prior to slashing the APC YOU should of engaged him right away before he slashed the APC and stunned himself. A Hivelord cannot catch a Predator, so you can't say that he should of went after you first... No logical Hivelord would ever engage any form of enemy, so assuming and blaming him for going for the APC instead of you is not a good excuse.

[Gelonvia]

I'm sorry Gel, but you've admitted to attacking a prey that was unable to defend itself. This was not a honorable kill and you've broken the honor code, this is a legit player complaint.

Even if the Hivelord saw you prior to slashing the APC YOU should of engaged him right away before he slashed the APC and stunned himself. A Hivelord cannot catch a Predator, so you can't say that he should of went after you first... No logical Hivelord would ever engage any form of enemy, so assuming and blaming him for going for the APC instead of you is not a good excuse.

That wasn't my priority sense I had a Carrier attacking him, he had previously attacked me back on the ground near the Engineering Area with multiple groups including the First Queen, a Hunter, and a runner who repeatedly pounced me over and over till the Marines arrived and poached my kill. So I stand my ground, he noticed me, knew I was there, has attacked me previously without one on one, and I only slashed him after he went down, but to clear things up Feweh with what happened I decloaked next to clicking at the same time he started slashing to get him to stop slashing it, he kept slashing even as I was right there and heard me coming in and no doubt noticed it, he collapsed as soon as he already has 2 slashes on him so and kept going at that APC which stunned him. Again I believe that's not my fault, as he could has stopped as I previously said. To add on attack number 3 was after he kept slashing, then the last four was after the Carrier started going for me and I kept going for the hivelord, now if my Prey who's a Hivelord stuns himself even after I have attacked them no predator is going to just stop mid being attacked and let themselves be attacked by the Carrier and I think you will agree with me there Feweh, especially with my glaive and other equipment being Metled by the aliens.

[Feweh]

The only ones who can clear this up are Apophis/Rahl/SAS at this point so will wait for them to actually check logs.

[Adjective]

[01:20:59]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:00]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:02]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:04]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:06]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:07]ATTACK: Gelonvia/(Vara'ule Kv'var-de) attacked Toroic/(Hivelord (521)) with glaive (Wielded) (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[01:21:13]SAY: H.E.L.P.E.R./AIIA : Nice one.

So I was doing some log diving and I would like to point out that Gelonvia has blatantly lied to staff. She used her Glaive, not her Wristblades.