NEW WIKI PAGE - MARINE RANKS!

[apophis775]

I added a new wiki page, with the HOPE of adding a bit more lore and immersion.


All the jobs, now have specific ranks associated with them. There is also a complete list of ALL USCM ranks. This page MAY change when I write the USCM overall lore, but probably not much.

Let me know what you think:

wiki/Rank

[Dyne]

Yay!
Finally.

Also personally think SL must be higher in chain of command.

6 Military Police (If there is more then one, the outgoing acting Commander will pick one or they will discuss among themselves who takes charge)
7 Maintenance Tech (If there is more then one, the outgoing acting Commander will pick one or they will discuss among themselves who takes charge)
8 Cargo Tech (If there is more then one, the outgoing acting Commander will pick one or they will discuss among themselves who takes charge)
9 Squad Leader (Starting at Alpha goes through the squads)

[apophis775]

If you look at the ranks, you'll see why.

The SL is enlisted, he can't outrank an officer.

[Voldirs]

Not too sure about CT being sergeant, not tech sergeant.
Also, I didnt find any mentions about some of these ranks in modern USMC(like Commander, LtCommander, Ensign, TechSergeant)

[Dyne]

If you look at the ranks, you'll see why.

The SL is enlisted, he can't outrank an officer.

Makes no sense organizationally for a CT to outrank a SL.
Also why a CT is a sargeant is not fully clear in the first place, he has no subordinates.
Maybe we ca simply rework it so that Combat roles have preference over Support.

CMO is also far form necessarily a civilian, i'd say it can be an officer rank.
In my country's tradition military doctors have officer ranks.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

Makes no sense organizationally for a CT to outrank a SL.
Also why a CT is a sargeant is not fully clear in the first place, he has no subordinates.
Maybe we ca simply rework it so that Combat roles have preference over Support.

CMO is also far form necessarily a civilian, i'd say it can be an officer rank.
In my country's tradition military doctors have officer ranks.

Sergeant*

Yeah...have to be that grammar guy.

Also I have no idea why the medic is a Sergeant but that is my opinion since I usually see them as the ranks Corporal to privates.

[apophis775]

Not too sure about CT being sergeant, not tech sergeant.
Also, I didnt find any mentions about some of these ranks in modern USMC(like Commander, LtCommander, Ensign, TechSergeant)

That's because I made up their positions based on my experience in the military and the general "feel" for the level of rank I want on the server. It was heavily inspired by Starship troopers and Star Trek.

Makes no sense organizationally for a CT to outrank a SL.
Also why a CT is a sargeant is not fully clear in the first place, he has no subordinates.
Maybe we ca simply rework it so that Combat roles have preference over Support.

CMO is also far form necessarily a civilian, i'd say it can be an officer rank.
In my country's tradition military doctors have officer ranks.

The Ct part, is actually from real-life. Most of the time, the supply department has an officer and a sergeant (your "Supply Sergeant"). Typically, there's some lower-ranking guys as well, but this fits our purpose.

The reason the CMO is a civilian, is because I want to fully seperate reseach/medical from the Marine side. In fact, I'm debating in the future to have the CMO another Weyland guy.

[WyattH]

>5. Requisitions Officer

...the RO who has no bridge access last I checked and no centcomm console access as well.....


Other than that, I really like this list, it clears up alot of stuff on the server, especially as command staff goes SSD or dies or never spawns in

[Steelpoint]

Realism aside why do Cargo or Maintenance Tech's get priority in the chain of succession over Squad Leaders or anyone else? It would be a very edge case but I would imagine from a gameplay perspective that a SL would be next in line after the Military Police.

Personally I also question why a Military ship has civilians on board, wouldn't a military use military personal instead of contracting civilians for whatever reason? Outside of the Corporate Liaison and Survivors (for obvious reasons) I would just assume everyone is a member of the Military. I feel we are shoehorning these non-combat roles into civilians simply as a excuse for them to not have access to a pistol sidearm and the debate that goes along with that.

[KeyWii]

Personally I also question why a Military ship has civilians on board, wouldn't a military use military personal instead of contracting civilians for whatever reason? Outside of the Corporate Liaison and Survivors (for obvious reasons) I would just assume everyone is a member of the Military. I feel we are shoehorning these non-combat roles into civilians simply as a excuse for them to not have access to a pistol sidearm and the debate that goes along with that.

I'd have to agree with this, the Sully's medical staff should be Naval personnel.

[Boltersam]

I'd have to agree with this, the Sully's medical staff should be Naval personnel.

I roleplay my doctor as an ex-marine, I don't know, I mean, no access to any firearms is a big pain in the ass, if we could use only the non-revolver pistol (I forgot the name) in emergencies it would be nice. I know aliens are supposed to win and all that, but when Doctors (such as myself) set up a Sanctuary down in the FOB where we can do surgery on marines immediately, we're helpless when aliens break through the barricades.
And I've been in a situation several times when people offer me a sidearm, and I have to explain in LOOC that it's against the rules.

I mean, you could say every doctor is ex-marine yada yada yada, but then it clashes against the rules.
Also, I have a BIG problem that the rule ONLY applies to doctors, maintenance techs and chief engineers can grab guns and help the marines, why shouldn't we be able to? they're civilians too!

[MrGabol100]

1- XO is First Lieutenant.
2- Why would MPs ONLY be Staff Sergeants?
3- The Squad Leader can be as high ranking as Sergeant Major and as low ranking as corporal, Apone was a Gunnery (Some say Master because of some console letters, blablabla, but that's a film error, his ranks were showing gunnery on all the film).
4- Medic in the film was a Corporal, so yeah.
5- Standards should also reach lance corporal at the least.

My idea is that you just change XO as it IS a first lieutenant and then you add a "-" to the ranks separating the most higher ranking that it can be and the lowest, that way you don't like totally break every marine's backstory.

Example:
Squad leader: Sergeant Major - Corporal.
Squad Medic: Sergeant - Corporal.
Squad Specialist: Sergeant - Corporal.
Squad engineer: Corporal- Private.
Squad Marine: Lance Corporal - Private.

Also, In Aliens they use USMC rankings, you did some strange Mix in the wiki page and excluded Gunnery. I don't think "USSF" is a thing, not for ranks at least, as Marine Corps are different from the navy corps in the universe.

This is the table we are supossed to be using:


Also, starting at alpha, goes trough the squads? Aren't squads, companies and doody doo supossed to be parallel?

[LordeKilly]

I object to Navy ranks applying to the officers. I understand that there are navymen who would fly the ship and such, but Marine Officer ranks go by 2nd/1st Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, Colonel and then general ranks.

Also I agree with Gabol, certain ranks should probably have a range on what they could possibly be, before being promoted to a next position.

[Edgelord]

I don't agree with the range of ranks for one role. We don't need standards saying they outrank each other because of whatever rank they decide to RP.

[TopHatPenguin]

Just going to throw in my views on this.

I believe this will just cause more tension in the Command staff then there was before and probably even more in squads, due to how many of the ranks are the same which will lead to more of "Well we are both the same rank, so why should I listen to you?" there would also probably be more cases of this with other jobs.

My other point is that players will most likely focus on a rank rather then on the actual job of another player.

[MrGabol100]

I don't agree with the range of ranks for one role. We don't need standards saying they outrank each other because of whatever rank they decide to RP.

That's the point, ranks SHOULDN'T EVER affect ANYTHING in gameplay.

And If you're playing standard when you want to RP a sergeant, you're probably just joining late or just didn't feel like it, you should still be able to roleplay your character, just don't try to enforce it on people, because it's YOUR RP.

This is why everyone wants to enforce the fixed ranks on the server like in this thread, but that destroys most backstories, we just need a rule to make marines do not enforce their RP on others.

And again: Ranks shouldn't matter, ONLY JOBS, ranks are for fluff and supporting backstories.

[Edgelord]

Also I disagree with Doctors being civilians. I understand that you want to shift doctors away from military roles, but the fact of the matter is that they would still be Naval personnel.

[apophis775]

Firstly, minor fix. The SL is actually a Staff Sergeant.

>5. Requisitions Officer

...the RO who has no bridge access last I checked and no centcomm console access as well.....


Other than that, I really like this list, it clears up alot of stuff on the server, especially as command staff goes SSD or dies or never spawns in

It would be up to the RO to get bridge access, or perhaps I'll adjust his access, since he's semi a department head.

Realism aside why do Cargo or Maintenance Tech's get priority in the chain of succession over Squad Leaders or anyone else? It would be a very edge case but I would imagine from a gameplay perspective that a SL would be next in line after the Military Police.

Personally I also question why a Military ship has civilians on board, wouldn't a military use military personal instead of contracting civilians for whatever reason? Outside of the Corporate Liaison and Survivors (for obvious reasons) I would just assume everyone is a member of the Military. I feel we are shoehorning these non-combat roles into civilians simply as a excuse for them to not have access to a pistol sidearm and the debate that goes along with that.

It'll be clearer in the future. Basically, the entire "USCM" will be split into 3 "branches" Command, Combat, Support.

Command will be command staff and the such.

Combat will be marines who go fight on the ground.

Support will be misc crew like engineers and cargo, who are there to supply and support the combat forces.

Command+Support will be people who are "permanently" assigned to the ship, while Combat are people who deploy. Thus, the chain of command follows people most likely to be on board during situations, and not fighting on the front lines.

I'd have to agree with this, the Sully's medical staff should be Naval personnel.

As stated before, Medical Staff will probably be Weyland people eventually. I'm still working on minor remodels of the ships departments, and while I did a good update to medical, I've got to give them some lore.

(snip)
Also, I have a BIG problem that the rule ONLY applies to doctors, maintenance techs and chief engineers can grab guns and help the marines, why shouldn't we be able to? they're civilians too!

NO, Maint Techs and Chief Engineers are not civilians.

1- XO is First Lieutenant.
2- Why would MPs ONLY be Staff Sergeants?
3- The Squad Leader can be as high ranking as Sergeant Major and as low ranking as corporal, Apone was a Gunnery (Some say Master because of some console letters, blablabla, but that's a film error, his ranks were showing gunnery on all the film).
4- Medic in the film was a Corporal, so yeah.
5- Standards should also reach lance corporal at the least.

My idea is that you just change XO as it IS a first lieutenant and then you add a "-" to the ranks separating the most higher ranking that it can be and the lowest, that way you don't like totally break every marine's backstory.

Example:
Squad leader: Sergeant Major - Corporal.
Squad Medic: Sergeant - Corporal.
Squad Specialist: Sergeant - Corporal.
Squad engineer: Corporal- Private.
Squad Marine: Lance Corporal - Private.

Also, In Aliens they use USMC rankings, you did some strange Mix in the wiki page and excluded Gunnery. I don't think "USSF" is a thing, not for ranks at least, as Marine Corps are different from the navy corps in the universe.

This is the table we are supossed to be using:


Also, starting at alpha, goes trough the squads? Aren't squads, companies and doody doo supossed to be parallel?

What part of "I made this up based on my own experience and decisions for lore" did you not understand? And yes, the USSF IS a thing. It's the large organization of US Space forces, of which the USCM are part of.

And the ranks I provided, are for "lore", they are not "binding" other than the fact that Doctors are civilians. The only "binding" part, is the chain of succession. Also, I didn't just shit this out randomly. I've done research, write-ups and discussed this with the dev team at length.

That's the point, ranks SHOULDN'T EVER affect ANYTHING in gameplay.

And If you're playing standard when you want to RP a sergeant, you're probably just joining late or just didn't feel like it, you should still be able to roleplay your character, just don't try to enforce it on people, because it's YOUR RP.

This is why everyone wants to enforce the fixed ranks on the server like in this thread, but that destroys most backstories, we just need a rule to make marines do not enforce their RP on others.

And again: Ranks shouldn't matter, ONLY JOBS, ranks are for fluff and supporting backstories.

Read the top of the fucking page. It LITERALLY SAYS THAT. The ranks are just the "standards" RP reasons can have different things.

[apophis775]

Also for those unaware, no offense, but "Backstories" are not part of the approved overall lore, and I'm not going to build around them. They have no general affect on rounds (This is covered under Rule 5 actually). I had the forum made for people to write their stories, but I've never actually visited it or read anything there.

That being said, the Ranks are ONLY LORE. As in, the "expected" rank of someone. That doesn't mean it can't change based on your backstory or how your RPing that time. The ONLY THING that matters, is the Chain of Succession.

[ChiefAmir]

In general I love the idea of ranks (pun intended), but I do have a few issues with some of them.

1. Marines and Naval personnel should have separate rank structures. At the bottom of the page, there is one chart of all ranks, but it lists marine enlisted and navy officer ranks. That's a bit weird and I think they should be separated.

2. If the RO is navy (as an Ensign he would be), then the techs should be navy as well. As such I think they should be Petty Officers (Second Class).

3. If the CE is navy (which he would be as a Lieutenant Commander), then the maintenance technicians should be navy as well. The equivalent naval rank would be Machinist's Mate (Second Class).

4. The medics should be corporals as well. Usually, a medic will be a corporal (E-4). Only in special forces or larger units do you really find E-5 and above medics.

5. Additionally, all medics would be naval personnel, unless this does not follow the current US Marine Corps way of taking in Navy Corpsmen as medics. As such, again, they would be known as Hospital Corpsman Third Class. Though for simplicity's sake, I think naming them Corporals would be just fine.

6. Doctors should be navy, as some people mentioned above already. If the command structure of the ship follows naval ranks (The RO and CE especially), then it would make sense for a military vessel to have military doctors. I understand that you want to distance the medical side from the military side, but I don't think civilian doctors would do that. I would give the doctors junior navy ranks, such as Lieutenant or Lieutenant Junior Grade with the caveat that they can't give marines military orders (in other words, the only orders they can give marines are in line with medical treatment).


Also, unrelated to the points above, I think it would be really cool if the ranks were on the IDs. I'm thinking something along the lines of this:
ENS. Hanz Salzstein (Requisitions Officer)
TSGT. Hanz Salzstein (Cargo Technician)
LT. Hanz Salzstein (Bridge Officer)
SSGT. Hanz Salzstein (Alpha Squad Leader)

I'm not sure about the implementation, but I think something like ENS. %NAME% (Requisitions Officer) could work?

[apophis775]

People aren't understanding...

The USCM is NOT part of the navy. They are a sub-group within the USSF. it's USCM people who crew and fly the ships.

[Dyne]

It would be up to the RO to get bridge access, or perhaps I'll adjust his access, since he's semi a department head.

This works, as RO has a command head set and such, and is already well integrated and informed of what is going on.
CT being higher in the chain of succession then a SL doesnt sit with me, at all.
Just cant imagine a realistic scenario that would allow a CT (as non-combat non-command personnel) effectively to assume command and be useful to the ship.

[apophis775]

Basically, it goes Command>Support>Combat

[Allan1234]

I know you have set the ranks and all but.. I can't shake the feeling that you need a field officer in there...

Also is the Captain rank like the navy captain or is it the field officer captain? and if so ignore my first remark.

[Seehund]

To be fair, I'd be all for having the ranks actually serve a function and give the marines the damn organization they need, without Urist McActuallyAGroundedGeneral cocking shit up at every turn.

But, you know, that's just me, the one sick fuck to rule them all.