"Little" explosives revamp.

[MrGabol100]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Impact grenades, replace orbital beacons, buff Incendiary grenades.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Aliens running from grenades has become a RP problem, as not roleplaying properly the explosives at first contact, after first contact the avoiding of grenades renders these explosives useless, as most aliens just run from them at first sight, and charge back a mere second after the explosive sets off, in defense this may be useful, but in attack, which the development staff is trying to improve, it completely negates the usefulness of explosives, as aliens hold their ground as if nothing had happened.

Beacon avoiding COMPLETELY nullifies the object, as it is static and takes a long time to aim, as a scarce thing they are it should be taken in account.

Incendiary grenades, same as the HE grenades serve of little purpose in attack, as they only negate an area, but if they impregnated mobs they would be, themselves, negated from combat for the time the fire lasts.

Making these changes to the explosives would apply a buff to marines and remove the roleplay problems and deficiency of explosives after the proper "Excuses" are given to avoid them.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Going to the point here:

-Impact Grenades:
+Replace HE grenades.
+Reskinned to silver cylinders as aliens grenades.
+Explode on impact, same radius, same everything.
+No timer on them, if you activate them they are ready to be thrown, if you click them back they go dull, right click to set off explosive and inmolate yourself (Goes along with suicide grenades).

Could use some nerfs, as the no-timer may be too much of a buff.

-Beacon Radio:
+Object that takes the same space as an orbital beacon, can only be used once, as they project the laser into space like the beacon does, and use all the unrechargeable battery on them.
+Same use as beacon, but doesn't deploy, meaning it's not in the ground, meaning it only can be visible if you inspect the holder, can't be used in caves, etc.
+Artillery fires on the location of the device WHEN IT WAS "Readied up" as the device is activated, command receives a message from the SL like a megaphone does, but trough command radio, alerting all staff to prepare the orbital cannons, still works as a beacon for the aiming.

Use: Hold radio, activate radio, megaphone text box appears, it is automatically redirected (In a bounced radio fashion) to the command channel, the radio deactivates (even if the holder is not a squad leader), then command can ready up the strike as if a beacon was activated, again, the position of firing is if a beacon was deployed when the radio sent a message. Command can then mark the position with the coordinates and fire.

-Incendiary Grenades:
+Impregnates mobs on fire (Or buffed damage).


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
A bit of code and one object reskin.

[Inaf]

Aliens running from grenades is becoming a RP problem

It is not a problem, therefore, this whole suggestion is invalid.

[Edgelord]

+1 to the reskin and radio beacon ideas, but I disagree with the impact grenades. If it gets accepted grenades would need to be nerfed and they would lose some of their strategic value. That being said, maybe specialists could get some kind of impact grenade independent from the launcher?

[MrGabol100]

+1 to the reskin and radio beacon ideas, but I disagree with the impact grenades. If it gets accepted grenades would need to be nerfed and they would lose some of their strategic value. That being said, maybe specialists could get some kind of impact grenade independent from the launcher?

Grenade launcher grenades should be impact by default, maybe even get 40mm ones so they can't be used as throwable objects.

[UnknownMurder]

It is not a problem, therefore, this whole suggestion is invalid.

It is a problem. People still runs away from Orbital Strike on first contact as well as any type of grenades.

[MrGabol100]

It is not a problem, therefore, this whole suggestion is invalid.

You're a meme, your point is invalid.

Also, you just took the mini-chat argument and commented without reading the suggestion, orbital strike does not have anything to do with impact grenades, neither does incendiary grenade damage buff.

[Toroic]

-1

Learn to cook grenades.

The purpose of an orbital is to take out defenses or an entrenched position. They are still highly effective for destroying on nest outside of the caves. It is not meant to be an instant airstrike.

Also, I'm against major buffs with a 50\50 win rate.

On the other hand, I find it very comforting to be in disagreement with both UM and Gabol. It means I'm almost certainly right.

[MrGabol100]

-1

Learn to cook grenades.

The purpose of an orbital is to take out defenses or an entrenched position. They are still highly effective for destroying on nest outside of the caves. It is not meant to be an instant airstrike.

Also, I'm against major buffs with a 50\50 win rate.

On the other hand, I find it very comforting to be in disagreement with both UM and Gabol. It means I'm almost certainly right.

Dude, why are you insulting? What's your god damn problem? Am I supossed to take your words as a fucking offense?

Do you really think your suggestions are better?

Have you ever tried to get a marine point of view?

[SkyeAuroline]

-1

Learn to cook grenades.

The purpose of an orbital is to take out defenses or an entrenched position. They are still highly effective for destroying on nest outside of the caves. It is not meant to be an instant airstrike.

Also, I'm against major buffs with a 50\50 win rate.

On the other hand, I find it very comforting to be in disagreement with both UM and Gabol. It means I'm almost certainly right.

Jesus, be a little less aggressive, would you.

As for the questions at hand:

Impact Grenades

I like it. The no-timer is a bit of a problem, I'd say don't let them be disabled again once activated and stick a maximum timer (5 seconds?) on them. Otherwise, I'm fine with this. Aliens have way too easy of a time of dodging grenades, even properly cookedo nes.

Beacon Radio

I admit I'm not entirely sure what's going on here. But from what I can tell, it's a beacon that doesn't deploy and hence don't give a warning to the aliens that "HEY THERE'S A BOMBARDMENT HERE EVERYONE CLEAR OUT EVEN THOUGH YOU SHOULDN'T KNOW". If I'm correct, this alone would be a +1, let alone with other stuff.

Incendiary Grenades

The "problem" is that aliens can't put themselves out once they're on fire. Apophis would have to fix this (which REALLY needs to be a bug fix request...) before this can happen. I support adding actual "on fire" status to both the flamethrower and incendiary grenades so they're less useless, but as-is they'd be brokenly overpowered.

Solid +1.

[MrGabol100]

-SNIPPYTIDOO-

Mango, snipers have incendiary rounds, the aliens fire isn't a problem, it's just timed, they last a little bit in fire, then it puts out, but it really should be a thing that keeps them in the ground for a good time, then puts it off.

[Azmodan412]

The "problem" is that aliens can't put themselves out once they're on fire. Apophis would have to fix this (which REALLY needs to be a bug fix request...) before this can happen. I support adding actual "on fire" status to both the flamethrower and incendiary grenades so they're less useless, but as-is they'd be brokenly overpowered.

Solid +1.

It is called pressing Resist.

[SkyeAuroline]

It is called pressing Resist.

Does that work now? From what I heard a couple days ago it was still a problem. I don't play xenos, so I don't know.

[Anewbe]

I'm going to give this a -1, because in my opinion grenades are useful enough as is. I've still seen kills and been killed by grenades while aliening, because again, cooking them off is a thing.
A very real secondary use is area denial, which is more obvious with the incendiary grenade, because the effect lasts longer. Aliens don't go into that 3x3 area, so if you put it in your FOB hallway you've bought a bit of time to get more marines to the wall.
As for the orbital beacon, I think this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4588 proposes a more effective change.

[Azmodan412]

I'm going to give this a -1, because in my opinion grenades are useful enough as is. I've still seen kills and been killed by grenades while aliening, because again, cooking them off is a thing.
A very real secondary use is area denial, which is more obvious with the incendiary grenade, because the effect lasts longer. Aliens don't go into that 3x3 area, so if you put it in your FOB hallway you've bought a bit of time to get more marines to the wall.
As for the orbital beacon, I think this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4588 proposes a more effective change.

Well... No aliens go into that 3x3 area except for ravagers and queens.

[MrGabol100]

I'm going to give this a -1, because in my opinion grenades are useful enough as is. I've still seen kills and been killed by grenades while aliening, because again, cooking them off is a thing.
A very real secondary use is area denial, which is more obvious with the incendiary grenade, because the effect lasts longer. Aliens don't go into that 3x3 area, so if you put it in your FOB hallway you've bought a bit of time to get more marines to the wall.
As for the orbital beacon, I think this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4588 proposes a more effective change.

Beacon is still visible after then, and I'm talking about offensive tactics, giving more time to the marine is defensive, which we are not trying to promote here.

[Rax]

Well the main points were already mentioned.
The alien meta with orbital strike and grenades is strong one.

Impact grenades would certainly be strong, but it is fact that right now grenades, without an launcher are close to useless, expect for area denial. As the long timer means that everyone will run away easily.
Yes, you can cook nade, but you risk of dying yourself to random lagspikes. Or throwing it far too early.
Maybe impact grenades that have 0.5-1 second timer after it hits the ground?

+1 to Incendiary Grenades and Beacon idea, not so sure about the rest.

[Anewbe]

Well... No aliens go into that 3x3 area except for ravagers and queens.

I mean, yeah, that's very true, but that still leaves 10 (I think) types of aliens that are trying to stay away, and the queen still takes fire damage, as far as I know, so you're still damaging her for however many ticks she's in there. Plus if you're in the nest grenades can kill up to nine tiles of facehuggers/eggs, which is a huge pain as a xenos, especially if the queen's behind on egglaying.

Beacon is still visible after then, and I'm talking about offensive tactics, giving more time to the marine is defensive, which we are not trying to promote here.

That's where offsets come in. If the aliens are holed up in a dome, have overwatch change the offset and place the beacon as close as possible. With coordination, the strike should hit on target with little to no time for the aliens to see the beacon and run away.
Orbital Barrage doesn't even work on the best places for nests (Northern Caves on LV-426 and anywhere on the Daedalus Prison), so I don't see how the proposed changes really affect offensive tactics.


Another thought that occurred to me is the idea that these changes would probably make grenade friendly fire more common, when right now you've got a decent chance as a marine to get out of the blast if someone throws poorly.

[Wickedtemp]

-1

Learn to cook grenades. And as for incendiary, don't use them to cause direct damage, use them as an area denial tool. I once defended Evac because I had like ten incendiaries, most if not all of the Ravagers were killed and the Queen didn't want to risk a suicide run, none of the xenos wanted to go into the flames. We managed to survive that round.

[Egorkor]

Little did that queen know she's also immune to fire, then.

[Anewbe]

Little did that queen know she's also immune to fire, then.

Well shit, I didn't know that either.

[Toroic]

Dude, why are you insulting? What's your god damn problem? Am I supossed to take your words as a fucking offense?

Do you really think your suggestions are better?

Have you ever tried to get a marine point of view?

It's pretty simple Gabol. I pay attention when people post, consider what they say, and it leads me to believe that you are unrobust, don't understand xeno mechanics, and consistently push for xeno nerfs/marine buffs.

Check my post history, I am not a fan of either xeno buffs or marine buffs at this point, as the win ratio is even. You don't play xeno and don't even use grenades as a marine, so why do you think you know what you're talking about when it comes to grenade mechanics?

Impact frag grenades are basically mini-SADAR rounds. That is far too strong.

With cooking grenades, skill factors in. Throw too early, xeno can dodge. Throw too late, it goes off in your hand.

I have seen marines who are great at cooking grenades, and they were highly effective.

If a robust marine player came in here and said: "Grenades are too weak" I would take them seriously even if they weren't able to make a convincing argument.

You, not so much.

Well shit, I didn't know that either.

There are a lot of xeno mechanics that marine-only players don't understand, the queen being immune to fire being something that does not usually come into play, and newer xeno players probably don't know it either.

[MrGabol100]

It's pretty simple Gabol. I pay attention when people post, consider what they say, and it leads me to believe that you are unrobust, don't understand xeno mechanics, and consistently push for xeno nerfs/marine buffs.

Check my post history, I am not a fan of either xeno buffs or marine buffs at this point, as the win ratio is even. You don't play xeno and don't even use grenades as a marine, so why do you think you know what you're talking about when it comes to grenade mechanics?

Impact frag grenades are basically mini-SADAR rounds. That is far too strong.

With cooking grenades, skill factors in. Throw too early, xeno can dodge. Throw too late, it goes off in your hand.

I have seen marines who are great at cooking grenades, and they were highly effective.

If a robust marine player came in here and said: "Grenades are too weak" I would take them seriously even if they weren't able to make a convincing argument.

You, not so much.
There are a lot of xeno mechanics that marine-only players don't understand, the queen being immune to fire being something that does not usually come into play, and newer xeno players probably don't know it either.

Yes, I checked your post history, you're new to the game, a generic player that plays marine but supports aliens on the forums, makes stupid suggestions, starts flame wars, and thinks he's better than anyone because he donated, wanna pull the shit? Let's pull the shit, but this is a suggestion, so take your shit that has been pulled to another fucking place.

Why do I think I know more than you about grenade mechanics? Well, because I've played here for way longer than you, and I every single bit of the gameplay mechanics, how they work, and how people react to them, and grenades are useless as fuck in general combat.

Now go insult someone else.

[Azmodan412]

... Calm down.

[MrGabol100]

You're not my real father!

[Azmodan412]

Hush boy. *takes out syringe of sopoforic* Come here... *trips and injects himself, soon falling asleep*