Loadout System for All Marines

[SkyeAuroline]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Implementing a system like the Specialist loadouts for all marines.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

- Less "my marine does everything!", more of fitting into a given role in a squad.
- Mitigates the stacking of pistols/rifles that xeno players frequently complain about, and is generally pretty dumb in the first place
- Eases the load on the RO at the beginning of the round
- Allows for introduction of future weapons in fitting roles (a few examples are listed)

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Each role receives up to three items from their kit, whether that's two weapons and an attachment or one weapon and two attachments.

Standard marine:

Rifleman- M41A, service pistol. Maybe foregrip?
Close Quarters- Shotgun, revolver, bayonet
Squad Marksman- M41A (pending eventual addition of M4RA), extended barrel, red dot sight.
Flamer Unit- Flamethrower, backpack tank from other suggestions OR filled spare tanks, service pistol; no mods, since the weapon doesn't support them
Stealth- M39, service pistol, suppressor
Support Rifleman- M41A, quickfire adapter, bipod (no secondary). In the event that the support M41A variant is ever added, it'll slot in here well.

Engineer/Medic (reduced shootiness because of other functionality):

PDW- M39, service pistol, recoil compensator.
Demolitions (engineer only)- Shotgun, forward grip, possibly toss the grenade launcher their way? If not, toss an extra bit of explosives this way. Probably disallowed on the prison map.
Combat Medic (medic only, natch)- M41A, service pistol, red dot sight.

Specialist: Retains current kits, flamer and fuel tank remain freely available as a kit identical to the standard Flamer Kit. Riot shield is REMOVED from free availability. Sniper kit receives bipod. One additional kit.
Riot Control: Riot shield, shotgun, gyrostabilizer.

Squad Leader: Retains all standard marine kits, SL vendor additionally receives a barrel charger and a red dot sight for their weapon of choice.

All modifications remain available from the RO, as do spare weapon crates. Ammo and tools still available as usual.

Please suggest other medic/engineer kits, they have enough other tools that I don't know how to do them justice.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Much like the existing specialist, everyone receives a token (spawns with it in their pack or their pocket, ideally). Token inserted in supply machine, select a kit, vends kit. Have fun.

[ChickenShizNit8]

What...

Yeah, no.... Good idea, terrible for our Server base...

"Pistol/Rifle stacking"

Rifles only fit on back and suit storage. If the pistol and SMG cause that much of a problem with aliens, suggest that we remove them from being able to be placed in bags, problem solved.

[SkyeAuroline]

What...

Yeah, no.... Good idea, terrible for our Server base...

"Pistol/Rifle stacking"

Rifles only fit on back and suit storage. If the pistol and SMG cause that much of a problem with aliens, suggest that we remove them from being able to be placed in bags, problem solved.

SMGs already can't be. However, as it is, you can have three submachine guns and seven pistols, while still having room for 9-12 mixed magazines. Or assault rifles, though only two rifles.

Why is it specifically bad for our server base? Please actually explain your reasoning if you're going to be negative. Specific lines you object to would be nice.

[Veradox]

>flashbacks
>minding own business playing marine
>getting my loadout ready, headset is pretty small, scrambling to pick it up to make a witty joke
>puts on headset
>smile, taking a breath before speaking into the headset
>when suddenly
>"DID YOU JUST USE YOUR SPECIALIST COIN TO BUY A CIGAR CASE"

[Davidchan]

SMGs already can't be. However, as it is, you can have three submachine guns and seven pistols, while still having room for 9-12 mixed magazines. Or assault rifles, though only two rifles.

Ugh, people always bring this up. You can't store 3 SMGs on your person, unless your are counting inhand items.

M41 Rifle - Fits on Armor and Back slot (replaces backpack) (Does not fit on belt slot)
M37 Shotgun - Fits on Armor and Back slot (replaces backpack) (Shotgun boxes take up 2 mags worth of belt space) (Does not fit on belt slot)
M39 SMG - Fits on Armor and Belt slot (replaces belt) (Does not fit on backslot)
44 Magnum - Fits on Armor and Belt slot (replaces belt) and inside backpacks (Does not fit on Back slot)
M4A3 - Fits on Armor and Belt Slot (replaces belt) and inside backpacks and inside belts (1 M4A3 takes up 3 mags worth of belt space.) (Does not fit on Back slot)

So yes, it IS possible to still carry 3 or more weapons, but it's no where near as bad as what marines used to do. I miss the days of the M4A3 fitting inside the armor pouches, but I guess we all make sacrifices. If a person did bring 2 rifles and a pistol (or equivalent weapons) they're just hurting themselves by limiting their ammo capacity down to 4 spare mags, 7 if they can get webbing and 9 if they can get brown webbing. And thats means no grenades, tricord injectors, extra flashlight or any other useful items they might want to bring instead.


Back to the suggested load outs? -1. It removes customization. Some players LIKE taking the 'standard' marine loadout of 1 M41A, 1 M4A3, 3 M41 mags and 1 M4A3 mags and then throwing other weapons ontop of it to suit their needs. Some players prefer the .44 over the M4A3 and others consider both a waste and would rather carry an SMG as a onehanded back up. Others still prefer a riotshield with a gyro weapon or smg, hell the SMG/Riotshield used to be THE choice for engineers. Other players still enjoy dual wielding SMGs or even M41s with gyros. Not really an option under this suggestion.

Are you suggesting removing weapons from armory vendors entirely? Where are MPs and other crew expected to get weapons when the ship goes to full red alert and the Commander orders all crew to arm up wtih lethals and defend the hangar/bridge/their work areas? What about re-arms? A marine gets captured and loses his weapon and backup in the field, recovered and taken to the Sulaco for surgery. How exactly is he expected to get a new rifle if his token has been used? This also makes aliens using acid on weapons extremely broken since there would be no way to replenish weapons if they got destroyed.

>flashbacks
>minding own business playing marine
>getting my loadout ready, headset is pretty small, scrambling to pick it up to make a witty joke
>puts on headset
>smile, taking a breath before speaking into the headset
>when suddenly
>"DID YOU JUST USE YOUR SPECIALIST COIN TO BUY A CIGAR CASE"

Worth it.

[SkyeAuroline]

Are you suggesting removing weapons from armory vendors entirely? Where are MPs and other crew expected to get weapons when the ship goes to full red alert and the Commander orders all crew to arm up wtih lethals and defend the hangar/bridge/their work areas?

Competent Requisitions. Weapons crates already exist.

What about re-arms? A marine gets captured and loses his weapon and backup in the field, recovered and taken to the Sulaco for surgery. How exactly is he expected to get a new rifle if his token has been used? This also makes aliens using acid on weapons extremely broken since there would be no way to replenish weapons if they got destroyed.

Competent Requisitions. Weapons crates already exist. The solution to the problem is already present. And if you have no requisitions- and hence no supply chain AT ALL- your crew doesn't honestly deserve restocking. MPs already have weapons as well, as of yesterday when I was in the MP area.

Others still prefer a riotshield with a gyro weapon or smg

Still supported just as much as it was before. Riot shields are only available from specs, and they get a riot shield AND a free gyro weapon.

Other players still enjoy dual wielding SMGs or even M41s with gyros.

Which any reasonable/respectable RO will shut down immediately, with regard to the gyros. And is pretty ridiculous in the first place.

EDIT: Also, yes, I'm counting in-hand items. Know of at least one player who carried two revolvers, another six in their pack, and speed loaders in their armor, pockets, and belt. Guns are disposable until you run out of loaded guns, at which point you reload. You can pull the same thing with three SMGs or two rifles, combined with six pistols. And thanks to the suit storage slot, you don't sacrifice any ammo capacity.

[Davidchan]

So let me get this straight, your suggestion to 'Ease the load on the RO' is really just making even MORE work for the RO as half the active marines will need to order some crate or another to get their desired weapon loadout and not some cookie cutter box that probably doesn't suit their playstyle?

As for riot shields, much like incinerators, lots of Specialists opt not to use it themselves, but will quite often give them to fellow marines. Engineers often do this with the mines or spare C4 and SL even hand out grenades to those they believe competent.

'No RO/CTs? Shit out of luck' is a fucking terrible way to make suggestions. Cargo generally has enough to do in a round by handing out weapon mods and preparing crates for supply drops without having to worry about setting up a reserve of weapons for marines get wounded/drop their weapons in battle. Players that walk around with 4+ weapons rarely last long as it is anyways, almost everyone of them goes cowboy, gets infected and spends the remainder of their short lives stuck in a checkerboard. Aliens have enough advantages over the lone idiot marine they don't need another.

[SkyeAuroline]

So let me get this straight, your suggestion to 'Ease the load on the RO' is really just making even MORE work for the RO as half the active marines will need to order some crate or another to get their desired weapon loadout and not some cookie cutter box that probably doesn't suit their playstyle?

My suggestion is to get SOME sort of structure to make folks like Toroic happy that marines aren't individually more heavily armed than your average special forces squad, get actual squad roles introduced instead of "everyone will just take random weapons SURE IT'LL WORK", and add a framework for new equipment to be introduced. And even if people start begging for boxes of guns off the bat (which the RO should, naturally, deny unless there's extenuating circumstances at round start), then that's the RO's actual job- being CARGO.

'No RO/CTs? Shit out of luck' is a fucking terrible way to make suggestions. Cargo generally has enough to do in a round by handing out weapon mods and preparing crates for supply drops without having to worry about setting up a reserve of weapons for marines get wounded/drop their weapons in battle. Players that walk around with 4+ weapons rarely last long as it is anyways, almost everyone of them goes cowboy, gets infected and spends the remainder of their short lives stuck in a checkerboard. Aliens have enough advantages over the lone idiot marine they don't need another.

Not if you listen to a lot of xeno players, they don't have much advantage. And I actually see the 4+ weapon marines succeed a lot more than single-weapon or even two-weapon marines, honestly.

Command has requisitions access. Weapon mods shouldn't even be an RO problem, but until we get an Armory Master or something of the like (handling prep in its entirety) it still is.

[monkeysfist101]

-1. Hard.
This removes the individuality of the Colonial Marines.

[Davidchan]

Making equipment hand outs based on roles isn't going to make people work together. This playerbase is predictable, and spawning with the token to get a crate means they'll hit the vendor first to get the item set they want to play, then go to their locker to get their headset and other items, exactly like Veradox described himself doing. There will be little to no discussion and planning gear assignments prior to purchase, there is basically none now anyways as each marine just knows they are going to run off alone or hopes they group up with a competent marine who will watch their back.

And for all this 'Competent Cargo can handle that' being thrown around, you know what shuts down marines who carry six pistols? Competent Sentinels. Nests as they exist now only allow for 2 escapes before bursting unless there isn't any ghost players able to play the larva. This second burst often happening literal moments before they begin to collapse and blackout. A single neurotoxin spit or pounce can shut down that marine and renest them with minimal damage. "But what if no sentinels are in the hive" well to use you own word, then the Hive doesn't honestly deserve to prevent hosts from escaping.

As for Xenos not having an advantage over a lone marine... I don't think those players know how to play. Pounce, spit and hugger throwing are more then plenty to knock a marine over, infect them and drag them back. 99% of Xenos checkerboard nests and doors, meaning the marine probably isn't going to get away from his nest unless the hive is abandoned, so it's not like they can count on freeing other xenos. So its a 1v1 and the xeno can't be disarmed or knocked prone save for massive damage, where the marine just needs to be stunned once and then they can be kept floored almost indefinitely if you keep disarming them before they get up.

[SkyeAuroline]

-1. Hard.
This removes the individuality of the Colonial Marines.

Great. That doesn't provide anything constructive. How would you resolve the issue of the pushfests and riots that ALWAYS occur in the RO, enact the "limited flamethrower use by standard marines" suggested in other threads, make new weapons worthwhile if Apophis ever adds any, prevent the piles of weapons that (contrary to the misinformed view expressed by someone else above) actually ARE quite effective and pose even more problems for xenos during a nest breakout...

I could go on for quite a while. Please, provide something constructive with a -1, or don't voice your opinion.

[Jack McIntyre]

Yea....nooooo. -1

I wouldn't have a problem with squad roles, but your suggestion has a lot of holes. Some have been addressed and to add, the cargo people will have to use points that could be used on more ammo because if you ever play the large pop games, those magazines eventually run out and then you have to fight with just a few magazines to a man. A lot of holes in this and will just cause more problems then good.

[monkeysfist101]

Great. That doesn't provide anything constructive. How would you resolve the issue of the pushfests and riots that ALWAYS occur in the RO, enact the "limited flamethrower use by standard marines" suggested in other threads, make new weapons worthwhile if Apophis ever adds any, prevent the piles of weapons that (contrary to the misinformed view expressed by someone else above) actually ARE quite effective and pose even more problems for xenos during a nest breakout...

I could go on for quite a while. Please, provide something constructive with a -1, or don't voice your opinion.

Ease back the throttle, pal. Having rigid roles is fine in a hypothetical situation. Keep in mind, though that the Colonial Marines are a very fluid organization. Everyone has their own niche that they're comfortable with. Restricting individuality by forcing people to take a base package will only create more work for the RO as everyone scrambles to get the gear they're comfortable with.

[SkyeAuroline]

Yea....nooooo. -1

I wouldn't have a problem with squad roles, but your suggestion has a lot of holes.

Great! Make a new suggestion with the things you'd like instead! I recognize my idea is not perfect, but we need something better than what we have on the marine side, particularly with regards to the RO and attachment distribution (both to let Requisitions get to work faster, and to prevent the bad ROs we occasionally have from preventing marines from getting attachments). Even if my suggestion isn't good and is denied, it's at least a talking point to get people started on doing anything useful.

Some have been addressed and to add, the cargo people will have to use points that could be used on more ammo because if you ever play the large pop games, those magazines eventually run out and then you have to fight with just a few magazines to a man. A lot of holes in this and will just cause more problems then good.

I've played in 100+ player games here and never come close to running out of ammo in the vending machines. Running out of weapons? Yes, we've had the stock of rifles and SMGs run out. Ammo? I've never seen a round with less than 50+ magazines left in the vending machines by the end (when marines are down to sub-20 people, who are each carrying even more ammo).

[Arachnidnexus]

I'd be totally down if standards could put together like 1/4 of a coin for a neat extra perk like a bonus riot shield or an incinerator, but loadouts would be a bit too cumbersome in my opinion. Besides, if there were no riots in the req line it wouldn't be CM.

[SkyeAuroline]

I'd be totally down if standards could put together like 1/4 of a coin for a neat extra perk like a bonus riot shield or an incinerator, but loadouts would be a bit too cumbersome in my opinion. Besides, if there were no riots in the req line it wouldn't be CM.

See, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Standards combining resources for extra perks? Great suggestion. I'd +1 it if someone proposed it. At least we're actually talking about something instead of shooting down anything new.

Ease back the throttle, pal. Having rigid roles is fine in a hypothetical situation. Keep in mind, though that the Colonial Marines are a very fluid organization. Everyone has their own niche that they're comfortable with. Restricting individuality by forcing people to take a base package will only create more work for the RO as everyone scrambles to get the gear they're comfortable with.

Can someone get Apophis in here and ask him how free the Army/Marines (don't remember his branch) was with the equipment people were allowed to take out? I was under the impression from what military friends and family have told me that weapons, at least, were non-negotiable. If anything, clothing and armor was more in the modifiable range. Then again, most of the people I've talked to were in Vietnam rather than more recent times (which, incidentally, is more fitting for Alien anyway...). RO should be, and is, completely justified to shut down requests. Requesting weapons at round start should be on the directive board as an "under no conditions before initial deployment".

[monkeysfist101]

See, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Standards combining resources for extra perks? Great suggestion. I'd +1 it if someone proposed it. At least we're actually talking about something instead of shooting down anything new.

We're not shooting down anything new, people just don't like this idea. Big difference.

Can someone get Apophis in here and ask him how free the Army/Marines (don't remember his branch) was with the equipment people were allowed to take out? I was under the impression from what military friends and family have told me that weapons, at least, were non-negotiable. If anything, clothing and armor was more in the modifiable range. Then again, most of the people I've talked to were in Vietnam rather than more recent times (which, incidentally, is more fitting for Alien anyway...). RO should be, and is, completely justified to shut down requests. Requesting weapons at round start should be on the directive board as an "under no conditions before initial deployment".

Are you aware of the term, "Segregation of gameplay and story?" If you aren't, I'll explain. Have you ever noticed that the Main Character is always more capable in a cutscene? Think of it like this: the marines who bring a magnum, M41, and shotgun do so because that's what they've been assigned. They're not grabbing random weapons off the shelf.

[SkyeAuroline]

We're not shooting down anything new, people just don't like this idea. Big difference.

Great. What's your proposal instead that isn't the current system?

Are you aware of the term, "Segregation of gameplay and story?" If you aren't, I'll explain. Have you ever noticed that the Main Character is always more capable in a cutscene? Think of it like this: the marines who bring a magnum, M41, and shotgun do so because that's what they've been assigned. They're not grabbing random weapons off the shelf.

Sure am aware of it. None of you are the main character. Stop acting like the Marines are all special snowflakes; you aren't. You're bog-standard marines in a shitty branch of the military that gets the shitty jobs. There is no reason for a marine to be assigned a full-length shotgun (acknowledged as being an "antique" in the film, last I checked), a full-length assault rifle, and an (equally obsolete) revolver. There's plenty of reason for there to be standard equipment that marines have.

Or do we want to go fully for gameplay? If so, there's a whole host of balance concerns that need to be addressed as well. And if you're going for gameplay exclusively, I assume that you're going to +1 all the major problems with xenos AND marines that have been pointed out, because balanced gameplay is more interesting?

[monkeysfist101]

Great. What's your proposal instead that isn't the current system?

My proposal that isn't the current system? That's a bit of a loaded question. I enjoy the current system for arming the marines.

[SkyeAuroline]

My proposal that isn't the current system? That's a bit of a loaded question. I enjoy the current system for arming the marines.

So, the current system is 100% perfect and could not be changed for the better in any way to mitigate the problem(s) of RO riots, incompetent ROs who refuse to actually distribute any attachments (seen this multiple times!), piles of guns, so on and so forth for gun- and requisitions-related issues, and hence should not be changed, at any point, from now until the inevitable death of the server?

If the answer's not "yes" then there's a problem you've noticed somewhere that needs a solution, and odds are good you've got something in mind. I want to hear it.

[ChickenShizNit8]

SMGs already can't be. However, as it is, you can have three submachine guns and seven pistols, while still having room for 9-12 mixed magazines. Or assault rifles, though only two rifles.

Why is it specifically bad for our server base? Please actually explain your reasoning if you're going to be negative. Specific lines you object to would be nice.

Not TRYING to be negative, it's a good idea! I just think this will take away some of marines.... customization. I just do not think many people will like this, taking away our freedom to choose our OWN weapons.

[ChickenShizNit8]

So, the current system is 100% perfect and could not be changed for the better in any way to mitigate the problem(s) of RO riots, incompetent ROs who refuse to actually distribute any attachments (seen this multiple times!), piles of guns, so on and so forth for gun- and requisitions-related issues, and hence should not be changed, at any point, from now until the inevitable death of the server?

If the answer's not "yes" then there's a problem you've noticed somewhere that needs a solution, and odds are good you've got something in mind. I want to hear it.

- Remove any weapons from being placed in Bags, solved issue

- RO's do NOT have to give out attachments, you SHOULD know this like everyone else.

((Sorry for double post but I could not edit my last post for some reason))

[SkyeAuroline]

- Remove any weapons from being placed in Bags, solved issue

- RO's do NOT have to give out attachments, you SHOULD know this like everyone else.

((Sorry for double post but I could not edit my last post for some reason))

Well, the revolver's never gonna see any use if you do that, unless you get it added to the belt list (which it really should be; we already have belt capacity that's dynamic based on the size of items). At that point, all you can use is the belt slot (precluding 5+ magazines/flares/etc) or suit storage, and the latter's going to be used for other guns normally. Hate to make a gun obsolete entirely in the process.

And ROs don't have to give out attachments, but the moment they don't, a riot invariably starts. And then people get bwoinked because despite allowing riots to start, apparently actually rioting isn't allowable. Might as well give a way for marines to get them without a problem. Perhaps have a token for a single attachment, rather than the entire loadout? The problem then (still) becomes limiting things like the barrel charger, but if those stick with specialists and SLs for availability (a normal marine should not under any circumstances receive a barrel charger) it might not be too terrible.

[Jeser]

If you didn't see ammo running out in vending machines, then I'm a bit surprised. And yeah, we are talking not about ALL kinds of ammo, but exactly about M41A magazines. Ammo runs out pretty quickly. And, RO still don't have normal ammo crates DESPITE ME ASKING ABOUT IT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHES. Hm, guess, I'll make another one suggestion.

Anyway, I'd like to see those subclasses in each role, though, I don't like limiting our individual sets of gear, that many marines already discovered for themself and use now. For example, as a standard I always take M41A, pistol, 8 mags (full belt and pockets), then go to RO and ask for red dot and bipod. This is my standard set up on Standard marine and I'm pretty satisfied with it. When I play engineer, I take SMG and only 3-4 mags, because I have much shit to carry. Though, if there is another engineer, then we divide stuff and my set up may change depending on how much stuff I have. Your system just won't work with engies at all.

[ChickenShizNit8]

Well, the revolver's never gonna see any use if you do that, unless you get it added to the belt list (which it really should be; we already have belt capacity that's dynamic based on the size of items). At that point, all you can use is the belt slot (precluding 5+ magazines/flares/etc) or suit storage, and the latter's going to be used for other guns normally. Hate to make a gun obsolete entirely in the process.

Carry in suit storage

Carry on belt slot, ammo in bag.

The revolver would not be useless after this, trust me