Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker

[Terminator541]

Your Byond Key: Terminator541

Your character name: Keagan Blackburn

Their character name: Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker

Their Byond key (optional - if you know it): Dunno

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Between 8:40am and 8:55am.

What rule(s) were broken: Grief (Murder)

Description of the incident: Before I start off, I'd like to mention that the accused player was 'ordered' to commit their actions by the chief engineer of that round, ZSenso (that's his character name).

So basically, myself and another survivor, Heindrik Bohm, had barricaded ourselves in the Nexus' cargo bay. The marines arrived in time to chase off a runner, and we began dialogue with them. ZSenso promptly ordered the marines to kill us on spot, which Kaelyn did using a SADAR and an HE rocket. Fast forward a while longer, the third and final survivor Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen approached them asking them if we had taken any hostile action towards the marines, shortly eating a rocket to the face as well, dying immediately. The marines shot his corpse up to make sure he was dead.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Kaelyn fires the rocket at us. Death was immediate. Ditto for Stan.
How you would punish the accused: A job ban from the specialist slot, possibly a day from the server as well.

[Feweh]

Why the fuck would they take orders from the CE.

Marines are on a search and rescue mission, they shouldnt be killing survivors unless they are hostile or just running around being idiots.

[Hycinth]

Alright, so, defending myself here (I've got logs if necessary, etc, etc.)

The round was utterly fucked from the start. Zsenso (new player, compeltely new, etc, insisted on coming to the planet as CE, OOC in IC, etc, was ahelped, as logs will show. Depislav was the staff on at the time)

Due to a general feeling of "Oh my god what is even going on okay", the marines collectively decided to follow Zsenso on planet as nothing was being done about it, etc, etc.

His orders were to, and I quote, "Kill anything that moves".

In both cases, no shots were fired until the whole "You know what to do" thing was ordered, etc. I didn't actually expect the first SADAR round to uh, kill the survivors, just to demolish the defenses in front of them. The one on Stan? I did expect that one to kill him.

I'd also like to note that I was not the only one firing in any of these cases, simply the one firing a SADAR.

Also, for the record, I'll submit that survivors are not protected under marine law, ETC.

A ban from the specialist role accomplishes nothing, as the sadar was simply the weapon used at the time. It's... entirely irrelevant to the entire situation as a whole, which was FUBAR, and, once again, ahelped ahead of time with no response from online, active admins.

Logs provided upon request, as is further insight into the situation.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

I will need to say that the CE was a newbie when I was playing that round and warned him to not go down. But Kaelyn insisted to not care about it and I saddly took his advice.

[Hycinth]

I will need to say that the CE was a newbie when I was playing that round and warned him to not go down. But Kaelyn insisted to not care about it and I saddly took his advice.

I wasn't the one who originally said that, for the record.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

I wasn't the one who originally said that, for the record.

I don't know if this proves anything but Kaelyn did say this in OOC.

Also if it doesn't prove anything then just ignore it.

[Hycinth]

I don't know if this proves anything but Kaelyn did say this in OOC.

They weren't listening to pretty much anything anyone said regarding that, so I told you not to bother trying to correct them, since it was a futile attempt.

[Terminator541]

Also, for the record, I'll submit that survivors are not protected under marine law, ETC.

Also for the record, survivors might not be protected by marine law but that doesn't make them non-human, nor does it make them valid to execute for no reason other than "I was given shitty orders by a shitty CE who shouldn't be on the planet in the first place."

You are not part of a corporate death squad. You are a marine in the United States Colonial Marines charged with responding to colonies in distress and providing relief to them.

I'd also like to note that I was not the only one firing in any of these cases, simply the one firing a SADAR.

No, you weren't, but we were all dead on impact from your rockets. The marines filling our corpses with lead means nothing other than their intentions were shit, too.

A ban from the specialist role accomplishes nothing, as the sadar was simply the weapon used at the time. It's... entirely irrelevant to the entire situation as a whole, which was FUBAR, and, once again, ahelped ahead of time with no response from online, active admins.

Maybe you're right about that. I have no moderating experience so I can't really come up with suitable punishments.

Due to a general feeling of "Oh my god what is even going on okay", the marines collectively decided to follow Zsenso on planet as nothing was being done about it, etc, etc.

You all knew that the CE was new and incompetent, so you followed him anyways? It's up to the marines to decide whether or not they want to take orders from someone who has no idea what they're doing.

[Hycinth]

Regardless of whether the CE was new/incompetent, he was the ranking officer on the ground by virtue of being the CE (even though he wasn't supposed to be there) and we would have had to file for a mutiny (which we didn't have the people for) in order to disobey direct orders, from my understanding.


Also yes, it was murder. That's an IC crime, which should have been dealt with appropriately.

[Feweh]

No the CE isnt ranking officer, in military terms hes not in a position to lead.

So lets put it this way.

You knew the CE was breaking server rules, you acknowledged this in OOC very clearly and yet you STILL decided fuck it and followed his orders?

You obviously knew killing the survivors was wrong because you stated above you didnt want to kill the survivors it was more "accidental".

Honestly the CE is to blame, but youre at fault for following orders from a rule breaking CE. Especially because you KNEW the CE was breaking the rules. You cant justify your actions with some elses unjust actions.
Had the Commander or a BO given the orders this would of been more forgiveable and less on Kaelyn to blame, but it was a CE breaking server rules that you yourself acknowledged.

Youre right, Survivors arent protected by Space Law. However they are protected by the No Griefing rule on our server. So unless you had a LEGIT reason to kill them, its fucking griefing.

An Admin will look further into this, but the CE and Kaelyn arent looking too good right now.

[Hycinth]

@Feweh, Derpislav has already looked into the matter and stated that nobody will be banned over the whole shebang going on here due to a lot of things going on in the round overall. Hopefully they'll post in the thread shortly.

And the CE is well within the lines to take over military command of the ship, and he is military personnel as outlined in the ranks. Just... pointing that out. They're after the BOs on the succession of command list.

And, as I stated, the whole situation was ahelped and not addressed by the active online admins (who were admittedly crashing/resource loading constantly, as was later revealed). The situation was rolled with ICly at the time as we had no outside guidance from command (outside the CE) or admins.

I'm personally against killing survivors unless they fire first 90% of the time. This is one of the other 10% where the round was tits up in general.

[Feweh]

@Feweh, Derpislav has already looked into the matter and stated that nobody will be banned over the whole shebang going on here due to a lot of things going on in the round overall. Hopefully they'll post in the thread shortly.

And the CE is well within the lines to take over military command of the ship, and he is military personnel as outlined in the ranks. Just... pointing that out. They're after the BOs on the succession of command list.

And, as I stated, the whole situation was ahelped and not addressed by the active online admins (who were admittedly crashing/resource loading constantly, as was later revealed). The situation was rolled with ICly at the time as we had no outside guidance from command (outside the CE) or admins.

I'm personally against killing survivors unless they fire first 90% of the time. This is one of the other 10% where the round was tits up in general.

Unfortunately, even if its dealt with in-game at the time and someone opens a report AFTER higher Admins have to look into it.

This is exactly why we have this on the forums because at times events and situations are over-looked in the moment.


Youre right, the CE is inline to take Command of the ship. Just not when theres are a stable line of command infront of him.

This is just a common sense situation which I think at the time went over your head. You made a mistake, but this is a valid report of griefing. Following the orders of someone who has no right to order you to begin with isnt a good excuse, especially when you even say in OOC that you know hes breaking server rules.

[Hycinth]

Unfortunately, even if its dealt with in-game at the time and someone opens a report AFTER higher Admins have to look into it.

This is exactly why we have this on the forums because at times events and situations are over-looked in the moment.

Isn't there also a rule against posting player complaints during the round in which they occured, however?

And regarding the "don't bother" it was because he was just ignoring the "don't talk about aliens" thing repeatedly.

[Derpislav]

I wasn't there to see the actual killing of the survivors, stuck in some bluespace anomaly and lagging hardcore, and investigation proved hard because most bodies were gibbed, most ckeys became xenos...

But CE only sparked the killing of the survivors and was warned and job-banned for that. It was the marines' collective decision to actually carry that order out, and it just happened to be Hycinth who dealt the killing blow - out of a whole bunch firing at once.

[Hycinth]

I wasn't there to see the actual killing of the survivors, stuck in some bluespace anomaly and lagging hardcore, and investigation proved hard because most bodies were gibbed, most ckeys became xenos...

But CE only sparked the killing of the survivors and was warned and job-banned for that. It was the marines' collective decision to actually carry that order out, and it just happened to be Hycinth who dealt the killing blow - out of a whole bunch firing at once.

None of the bodies were gibbed by the SADAR/Marines, for the record. We dragged all the bodies back to the dropship AFAIK (Ray "Zero" Robinsen did the dragging via rollerbed) and I saw all the bodies after they were dead.

[Jack McIntyre]

I am going to step in and side with Feweh on this one, I play marine all the time and I don't care if the commander gave you the order to kill survivors you do have a right to say no to the orders. You are not the xeno hive and have the right to deny orders, granted that can have consequences, but I do know the CE was dealt with, the fact that you and the marines all knew your actions were wrong and did noting to stop the CE does not sit well for me. If the LOOC had not been shown I would understand you guys maybe trying to keep it in character, but the fact as Feweh said that it was acknowledge by you guys in LOOC and you still carried on with it is not without guilt. Granted I don't think you should be the only one punished because of the whole cluster it seems that happened, but don't be afraid to stand up if you know something is wrong. So I am going to have to step in and say this was not handled properly by the marines who could have stopped the CE.

[Hycinth]

Yes, we could have stopped it, but as he was refusing to stand down, it was dead hour so no MP's at the time, etc, we decided to just let him come down instead. The situation was, in fact, a helped, but as derpi said, he was evidently caught in a time vortex of some sort. That, combined with the chuckle fuckery of the round before (crew transfer vote passed less than a minute after round start) just sort of lead to a general tone of "fuck it".

We attempted to correct him icly, oocly, and when nothing worked, we threw up our hands and went "okay, fuck it. Admins aren't dealing with it, we have no practical way to deal with it, just roll with it, I guess."

Yes he was a new player, yes it was a poor order, yes it was murder etc.

One thing logs aren't good at capturing is the tone of the round, and I feel that's crucial to the report as a whole.

Additionally, I submit for the record that this report was made during the round in which the events occurred, fairly soon after they occurred, and did not leave proper time for the salt to settle/the situation to become visible to the player reporting.



As for the LOOC, I can provide full, in context logs if necessary. Literally nobody but derpi was on to answer ahelps and they weren't able to respond/handle the situation, and looc was basically spammed with people telling him to not say aliens and him continuing to say it.

Hence me telling Aidan, who had arrived, not to bother trying to correct him, since it was having no effect.

[Feweh]

Yes, we could have stopped it, but as he was refusing to stand down, it was dead hour so no MP's at the time, etc, we decided to just let him come down instead. The situation was, in fact, a helped, but as derpi said, he was evidently caught in a time vortex of some sort. That, combined with the chuckle fuckery of the round before (crew transfer vote passed less than a minute after round start) just sort of lead to a general tone of "fuck it".

We attempted to correct him icly, oocly, and when nothing worked, we threw up our hands and went "okay, fuck it. Admins aren't dealing with it, we have no practical way to deal with it, just roll with it, I guess."

Yes he was a new player, yes it was a poor order, yes it was murder etc.

One thing logs aren't good at capturing is the tone of the round, and I feel that's crucial to the report as a whole.

Additionally, I submit for the record that this report was made during the round in which the events occurred, fairly soon after they occurred, and did not leave proper time for the salt to settle/the situation to become visible to the player reporting.



As for the LOOC, I can provide full, in context logs if necessary. Literally nobody but derpi was on to answer ahelps and they weren't able to respond/handle the situation, and looc was basically spammed with people telling him to not say aliens and him continuing to say it.

Hence me telling Aidan, who had arrived, not to bother trying to correct him, since it was having no effect.

Given whats just been said so far youre guilty. Youve admitted it was wrong and it probably shouldnt of happened.

Im not saying you deserve to be punished at all. I think you made a mistake and in the moment got caught up in a shitty situation.

You clearly didnt sadar them to be malicious and youre not a shitty player. Its judt judging by what transpired you fucked up and thats all where saying.

[Terminator541]

I didn't take screenshots because I didn't think it'd mean much, but every time they killed a survivor they would proceed to taunt them ICly, shouting "Wrecked" and "Get fucked". Seems pretty malicious to me.

[Feweh]

I didn't take screenshots because I didn't think it'd mean much, but every time they killed a survivor they would proceed to taunt them ICly, shouting "Wrecked" and "Get fucked". Seems pretty malicious to me.

An Admin can check logs for this.

I have no idea why no Admin has responded to this yet.

[Hycinth]

An Admin can check logs for this.

I have no idea why no Admin has responded to this yet.

Keagan Blackburn [Sulaco] says, "Huh."
Keagan Blackburn [Sulaco] says, "I know they can't break in, but..."
Talon Focell [Sulaco (Spc)] says, "Contact"
Heindrik Bohm [Sulaco] says, "Ugly hellhound"
Talon Focell [Sulaco (Spc)] says, "North"
Talon Focell says, "Hey there"
Heindrik Bohm shouts, "Soldier!"
Heindrik Bohm [Sulaco] shouts, "Soldier!"
Keagan Blackburn says, "We got a bunch of scary looking guys with guns."
Keagan Blackburn [Sulaco] says, "We got a bunch of scary looking guys with guns."
Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker whispers, "Zsenso said kill everything"
You are now carrying the M83 rocket launcher with one hand.
Heindrik Bohm asks, "Did the xenomorphs run away?"
Heindrik Bohm [Sulaco] asks, "Did the xenomorphs run away?"
ZSenso says, "Take them out"
You slide the the ÿMarine Combat Knife out of the marine combat boots.

ZSenso says, "You know what you must do"
The wooden barricade has been hit by Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker with the ÿMarine Combat Knife.
Talon Focell [Sulaco (Spc)] asks, "The who what?"
Talon Focell talks into the marine bravo radio headset
The wooden barricade has been hit by Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker with the ÿMarine Combat Knife.
Hungry Hirleman says, "YOU HEARD ZSENSO"
The wooden barricade has been hit by Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker with the ÿMarine Combat Knife.
The wooden barricade has been hit by Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker with the ÿMarine Combat Knife.
ÿHeindrik Bohm has thrown the mechanical toolbox.
The wooden barricade has been hit by Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker with the ÿMarine Combat Knife.
ÿThe barricade is smashed apart!
You slide the the ÿMarine Combat Knife into the marine combat boots.

You grab the M83 rocket launcher with both hands.
ÿUnknown's face melts away, turning into mangled mess!
You are now carrying the M83 rocket launcher with one hand.
Hungry Hirleman fires the ÿM37 Pump Shotgun (Wielded)!
ÿ!You start feeding the high explosive rocket shell into M83 rocket launcher. Stand still!
Talon Focell [Sulaco (Spc)] says, "Tangos down"
Talon Focell talks into the marine bravo radio headset
ÿ!You put the the high explosive rocket shell in M83 rocket launcher.
Hungry Hirleman fires the ÿM37 Pump Shotgun (Wielded)!
Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker says, "FUCK YEAH"
Hungry Hirleman [Sulaco (Mar)] says, "SURVIVOR ERADICATED"
Hungry Hirleman talks into the marine bravo radio headset
Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker [Sulaco (Spc)] says, "Fucking rekt"

Relevant text from landing to first two survivor deaths. Yes, I said "fucking rekt", but so did other marines, if not in those words. My phrasing was more from the perspective of the person toting around a friggin rocket launcher.

I actually expected to only breach the defenses they'd set up (two walls built, a window and computer in the center, with my rocket hitting the center) and expected them to back up once they say a specialist clearing the barricade in front of the computer in question. I couldn't actually see them at the time, as they'd gone below the walls to the south and were thus out of line of sight.

ÿ!Heindrik Bohm is buckled in to the roller bed by Ray 'Zero' Robinson!

One of the survivors being buckle in for transport to the shuttle.


Regarding Stan:

*---------*
This is Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen!
He is wearing a security officer's jumpsuit with a webbing.
He is wearing a helmet on his head.
He is wearing a security armor.
He has a marine backpack on his back.
He is holding a ÿM41A Rifle in his right hand.
He has some botanist's leather gloves on his hands.
He has a marine belt about his waist.
He is wearing some oil-stained marine combat boots on his feet!
He has a primitive mask on his face.
ÿ!Standing at six foot and one inch ta... More...
*---------*

He did have a gun out at the time, though it wasn't wielded.

Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen says, "Yo."
Talon Focell says, "Oh hey"
Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker says, "The fuck is this guy"
You put the ÿ44 Magnum into the marine backpack.
ZSenso says, "Are these friendlys"
You grab the M83 rocket launcher with both hands.
Kaelyn 'Sentry' Hawker asks, "Are you with t he other two?"
Talon Focell says, "I don't know"
Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen shrugs.
You will now take people captive.
You will now shoot where you target.
Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen asks, "Did they shoot you?"
ZSenso says, "You know what you must do"
Talon Focell says, "They have a gun"

At which points I saw the sprite swap to the "wielded" state, and assumed they were preparing to fire on the marines, and launched a rocket in response.

ÿYou hear a loud cracking sound coming from Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen.
Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen screams!
ÿYou hear a loud cracking sound coming from Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen.
Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen screams!
Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless...

At which point

ÿ!Stan 'Survivor' Vinsen is buckled in to the roller bed by Ray 'Zero' Robinson!
[omitted]
ZSenso says, "Get the other one"

The body was transported to the shuttle with the other two bodies, as far as I'm aware.

We then proceeded to go look north from the uh, medical station, I believe, encountered ayylmaos, and got wiped out. Later on in dchat:

DEAD: Keagan Blackburn says, "viewtopic.php?f=63&t=4906"
DEAD: Keagan Blackburn says, "here you go"

(showing the complaint was posted during the round in question, and during admin investigation)

OOC: Derpislav: Alright, since the player report was posted before I got there, I'll let it get processed as usual. Will be probably just a warning, because rules on survivors... There are no rules on survivors.
[omitted: much grille mangling]
OOC: Derpislav: This was a clusterfuck from all sides, so no one is getting banned.

Derpislav's comments on the situation in general

Moderator PM from-Derpislav: I gave them a jobban from all command/high-risk roles, telling them to post on the forums when they finally know what this game is about.

Derpi's comment on the punishment of the CE done within round

PM to-Derpislav: they weren't listening to any of us and we didn't get a response from you, so we ended up just following them on the ground, since they were technically the ranking officer down there.

My comment to derpislav re: the officer

Moderator PM from-Derpislav: Yeah, I've been stuck in a stable loop of crashes and resource downloads at the moment. Sorry for that.

Evidently the reason the situation wasn't dealt with earlier

No further logs relevant.

Logs relevant to the round in question begin at "Welcome to Colonial Marines"
Logs are entirely from my perspective within this paste.

http://pastebin.com/6FmY7sfj

[Jack McIntyre]

Right I am investigating this report and I will report my findings on this, checked the logs a bit and kinda of shocked a bit about this CE, but will let publish everything once I am done.

[Jack McIntyre]

Right found the round in question, and to be honest I have to say I'm shocked you marines let him lead even when he was saying things like:

[08:34:57]SAY: ZSenso/MR.ANTiFuN : I wanna shoot some aliens
[08:37:11]OOC: (LOCAL) ZSenso/MR.ANTiFuN : i didnt buy ammo someone wanna give me knife

Among other things, and in other rounds he honestly seems confused so I am guessing he wasn't trolling or trying to cause grief, that being said I would highly suggest one of our mentors would take him aside and teach him the game or have a more experienced marine pull him aside and get him settled. Now that being said I think we make sure that he stays away from command locations and actually get him just to play as a normal marine until he gets more accustomed since I think he is probably a younger kid the way he was talking.

Alright now for Sentry and the others, let me just say that it may mean nothing to you, but I am quite honestly disappointed with all of you that went along with him leading. Sentry you were against it and I know you had many marines telling you to stop and just listen, so I get the peer pressure, but what you said to Zsenso just because he was new like telling them to drink bleach because they were new, not okay. I would highly suggest you avoid things like that in the future, however since you were following orders of the CE, I have had games where some CO's order the deaths of the survivors, I have been a survivor during one of these games and it was fun to fight against the marines. So I can't fault you for killing the survivors, if you had not kill them with the rocket, the other marines would have, so you are not the only one to blame and I will go with Feweh here and say you shouldn't punished for firing the rocket at the survivors.

Now going to talk to all marines who were following Zsenso, if you have someone new like that again, even if you can't reach the admin, granted i saw many of you put in a-helps, and since Derp was dealing with a lot of bad lag and didn't respond you do have some support on your side for just following the chain of command like you are suppose to. HOWEVER! You all have the right to stand up against command, god knows my character has done it against bad calls, and this would have been one of those times to stop him from going planetside or at least not following his orders. You all knew he was new from the LOOC's I saw, so I would highly recommend in the future you guys use some better common sense.

My overall investigation, I will say that Kaelyn is free from blame from punishment due to them sending the first a-help about Zsenso wanting to fight planetside as well as trying to voice their disapproval with the CE (This was in character and in LOOC) and only after the other marines kept yelling at them (Again this was in character and in LOOC) to just let him lead did they finally back down. So ending this with just a warning to all marines involved to use better common sense, but I don't see any rule breaking here due to it not being grief for following orders of the chain of command.

[apophis775]

Alrighty, give me a list of all the Ckeys of the people who need warnings, and I'll issue them.