Real problem with aliens

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1119
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Real problem with aliens

Post by Jeser » 20 Dec 2015, 05:18

Image

Well. All of these were SSD larvas from round that just ended.

You see MAIN problem of aliens? They are NOT INTERESTING to play for most of players. Player logs in, join marines side, dies/burst and go observe or leave round at all.

I dunno, how to fix it, no suggestions, just straight fact.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.
Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Apop's permission: Click

Wickedtemp
Registered user
Posts: 603
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 22:14

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Wickedtemp » 20 Dec 2015, 05:53

Yeah, pretty much.

This has been my experience:

Runner: Run around, catch a lot of hosts at first. Then the marines come. Avoid them because if you get shot three times or so, you die. Become a hunter, pick off the few stragglers, there are normally at least one or two, sometimes die in the process. Dying is frequent, normally inevitable at the hangar fortress.

Sentinel: Stay in the hive and watch any hosts, especially the marines. Evolve. Watch the nested marines... Evolve. Watch the nested marines... Attack with all the other aliens when ordered, die at the impenetrable hangar fortress.

Drone: Fill in empty spaces with walls, doors, hallways, sticky resin. Sticky resin everywhere. Make a checkerboard nest because it's easy and it works. Listen to marines cuss me out in LOOC because they're stuck in the checkerboard nest. More sticky resin. If Hivelord, even more sticky resin. If Carrier, weeds. Weeds. Weeds like Colorado's got weeds. Also throw huggers. Normally survive for quite a while and infect a good number of marines until you reach the hangar fortress and get massacred.

Sentinel, while I feel like it'd be my favorite caste, is basically "Babysitter Simulator".

Runner, which has a few good options in terms of fucking up marines, is either a "High Speed, Low Health" or a "Insanely Low Speed, Medium Health" choice. There is no in-between. If you play as a Ravager, you can be outrun, out-maneuvered, and then killed. Crushers are good at fleeing until they have to turn a corner. Any pursuing marine can then kill it while it's stunned.

Drone is probably the more... balanced class, I think. With the option of Carrier, you have a chance to REALLY hurt the marines. Every marine infected is a kill unless they get the larva out. If it's not a kill, you put someone out of the fight for half an hour.

Then there's the fact that high-pop is almost always a marine victory. Guess which hours I'm normally only available to play? High-pop hours. So if I joined as a xeno, I already know that, odds are, I'm on the losing team and there's very little I can do to change that. The win-win ratio might be close to 1:1, but that doesn't mean it's balanced. If it was balanced we'd see an almost alternating pattern. But instead we see marine victories up until most of the marines log out to sleep, then the aliens win a few rounds, and then the rest of the marines wake up and it's back to marine victories. That's not balanced, that's having the marines so tough that the aliens can rarely beat them because of the sheer number advantage.

Also, Xenos DO take more teamwork and practice to play correctly. As a marine? Grab gear, rifle, ammo, knife, click whatever you want to kill. Don't stop clicking. There ya go. But for the Xeno, it's a stealth game. If you get caught, you might just get gunned down because the survivors already told the marines literally everything, since the survivors holed themselves up with metal girders again. (I know, I do it as well, but I don't think I will anymore.) So the fact it's a bit of a steeper learning curve may be off-putting.

And then you have the fact that whenever a Xeno does something like nest a marine, hug a marine, pounce a marine, tackle a marine, you'll often be met with an LOOC message. "wow xeno meta", "fuckin checkerboard nests", "saltysaltsalt", etc. Literally anything a xeno does is bad to them. Why? Because in this game, the xenos are seen as the antagonists. So who do people join? The protagonists.

Last but not least, we have the fact that some people have flat out said they feel like they're "playing against their own team." if they play as a xeno. If you regularly play as a marine, you don't want to die and then turn around to start killing marines, those are your squad-mates and pals. So there's yet another reason not to play xeno.

Whereas there's literally no reason to not choose marine. Winning side? Check. Shoot guns and explosions? Check. Sure, you have to deal with idiots, but you can just shoot and kill them on the battlefield and blame it on FF later. Did you die? Don't worry, you might be cloned. Not getting cloned? You had a good run, log out. Cause fuck playin' as a xeno.

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1119
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Jeser » 20 Dec 2015, 06:44

Wickedtemp wrote:Last but not least, we have the fact that some people have flat out said they feel like they're "playing against their own team." if they play as a xeno. If you regularly play as a marine, you don't want to die and then turn around to start killing marines, those are your squad-mates and pals. So there's yet another reason not to play xeno.
Definitely that's the reason I play alien so rare.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.
Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Apop's permission: Click

User avatar
Feweh
Donor
Donor
Posts: 4870
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 19:34
Byond: Feweh

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Feweh » 20 Dec 2015, 07:13

Been a issue for a long time.

Need to add identity to the aliens to encourage players to play. No one wants to be a faceless #.

Gameplay over lore at times for the fun of things.

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1119
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Jeser » 20 Dec 2015, 07:34

Feweh wrote:Been a issue for a long time.

Need to add identity to the aliens to encourage players to play. No one wants to be a faceless #.

Gameplay over lore at times for the fun of things.
It's not the only problem. As example: on Pre-Alpha, back on Nostromo, if I got burst I play as alien almost usually. Why? Dunno. But, I think, it's because I wasn't tired by that time. On Alpha after 1,5 hour of play as marine, I get pretty tired and I have no willing to continue play as alien. It's was faster and easier on Nostromo.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.
Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Apop's permission: Click

User avatar
LordLoko
Registered user
Posts: 830
Joined: 16 Oct 2014, 13:35

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by LordLoko » 20 Dec 2015, 09:03

Jeser wrote: It's not the only problem. As example: on Pre-Alpha, back on Nostromo, if I got burst I play as alien almost usually. Why? Dunno. But, I think, it's because I wasn't tired by that time. On Alpha after 1,5 hour of play as marine, I get pretty tired and I have no willing to continue play as alien. It's was faster and easier on Nostromo.
Maybe beacause on nostromo we immediatly became aliens after brusting?
My name is Ulysses Skyfall, but people call me "Meat".
Check out my dossier page

Image
Image

Image

I don't play CM, currently in a break.

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1119
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Jeser » 20 Dec 2015, 09:33

LordLoko wrote: Maybe beacause on nostromo we immediatly became aliens after brusting?


What do you mean?
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.
Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Apop's permission: Click

User avatar
Davidchan
Registered user
Posts: 350
Joined: 20 Feb 2015, 22:08

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Davidchan » 20 Dec 2015, 10:25

I seem to recall a time when waiting to burst put you first in line for larva priority. Aka YOU became larva that you bursted from immediately so long as your prefs were set (ignoring a bug/oversight that made people be aliens regardless.)

SSD Larva timer is way too long/inadequate for gameplay needs. It's just another case of trolls and scrubs ruining it for everyone else. 10 minute timer is to stop people from mass suiciding larva/xeno lives and throw a round. Except, if your prefs are on many players can and will burn through a number of xeno lives so long as infected hosts are available.

Xeno assignment needs to be looked at, if possible something along the lines of fresh players able to immediately possess an SSD larva or trigger a burst just as easily as a new player can immediately join a round as a marine. The respawn should configure something along the lines of wait time equals 3(n+1) minutes with n= to the number of Xeno deaths a player has had in a round. Die once, you wait 3 minutes, die twice, you wait 6, ect... as this keeps players who die repeatedly on the bench to observe and reconsider WHY they died, allowing players who may not be dying nearly as much. Additionally, a notification to the player SHOULD pop up that they are eligible to burst and confirm if they want to, preventing afk players from wasting a larva. If the notification isn't clicked within 2 minutes~, the next eligible player for xeno play is queried and given the prompt and continues to cycle elligble players until someone can play the larva.

User avatar
LordLoko
Registered user
Posts: 830
Joined: 16 Oct 2014, 13:35

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by LordLoko » 20 Dec 2015, 10:32

Jeser wrote:

What do you mean?
In the current version, when you brust you ghost to someone take the role as larva or you wait until a larva is avaible. In nostromo, when you brusted you became the alien that was within you immediatly.
My name is Ulysses Skyfall, but people call me "Meat".
Check out my dossier page

Image
Image

Image

I don't play CM, currently in a break.

User avatar
Peachy2912
Registered user
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 Feb 2015, 17:19

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Peachy2912 » 21 Dec 2015, 09:51

On the nostromo there were various places to hide such as maint, there were many vents that you could crawl through which allowed you to attack an unsuspecticing marine enemy from many directions. The enviroment was a lot more alien friendly with tight claustrophobic corridors and corners that could have an alien with a fist full of hugging goodness waitin for you. The ground map however is wide open, the only thing preventig the marine team from utilizing their ability to move and shoot in this open enviroment is the darkness.

Long story short is that being an alien on the ground map is extremely challenging in terms of chasing down an enemy without them fillin you with holes as you dont have the manuverbility to reposition and regain the upperhand. Alongside this, aliens being just a number encourages lone wolf gameplay as they have very little chance of facing repercussions from the queen or staff, and the new maps are not suited/built for lone wolfish tactics on the aliens part. This all ultimately leaves thr xeno role feeling a little lack luster without an experienced team to back you up and just simply isn't as fun or as intense as it used to be, in my opinion.

User avatar
ParadoxSpace
Registered user
Posts: 237
Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 23:00

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by ParadoxSpace » 08 Jan 2016, 09:56

It's the Us vs. Them mentality, the 'I'm being a traitor' mentality, larva waits, faceless number, and it'd be really nice if you became the alien when you bursted.

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by GGgobbleCC » 10 Jan 2016, 18:21

Marines are just so much better than aliens, and the dev team continues to not address the glaring balance issues so it isn't any wonder that everyone plays marines(majority of the dev+admins included)

Also the wait timer on death to play as a larvae is 10 fucking minutes

User avatar
Azmodan412
Registered user
Posts: 1318
Joined: 01 Oct 2015, 23:17
Location: The Void

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Azmodan412 » 10 Jan 2016, 18:25

The way I see it, people like having a clusterfuck of command staff, and complicated supply lines. Xenos are just much more simple: One person in command, that one person gives everything the xeno team needs, xeno team is actually robust and wins. Right now, the xenos have WAY more teamwork than metarines. Push comes to shove, people like trying to be a hero instead of working together with their allies, ergo more people play marines instead of xenos.

@GGgobbleCC, 10 minutes? That is literally nothing.
Image

Tyler 'Thrift' Borealis: Slaughterer of stupid xenos, insane motherfucker, and who played tower defense with Predators with an axe.
Predator Duels Won: 1
Predator Duels Lost: 2

BRING IT ON CASANY! I DO NOT CAST DOWN A CHALLENGE!
43 Xenos and counting.

Hunter Games: I am Moon Moon! Destroyer of worlds! Ahuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu!
Moon Moon Victories: x1

User avatar
Nick123q23
Posts: 455
Joined: 07 Jul 2015, 12:44
Location: LV-1201
Byond: Nick123q23

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by Nick123q23 » 17 Jan 2016, 19:53

Marines should require teamwork, but they don't. All they need is five marines with the pulse rifle to blob together and that single formation of marines will kill any amount or caste of alien minus a queen screech.
Player of faceless xenomorphs of the species XX121, Miranda 'Mira' Laporte, Daniel Gryphon, Kia and Akl'iiya Quatza-rij
Proudly played as and won a round as an Ancient Empress

User avatar
ZDashe
Registered user
Posts: 629
Joined: 02 Dec 2015, 23:28

Re: Real problem with aliens

Post by ZDashe » 20 Jan 2016, 09:44

Nick123q23 wrote:Marines should require teamwork, but they don't. All they need is five marines with the pulse rifle to blob together and that single formation of marines will kill any amount or caste of alien minus a queen screech.
Then you clearly haven't seen how a single runner can screw up marines by encouraging friendly fire; nor a single crusher stunning, ramming and trampling marines until they flee; nor a ravager that manages to push back a marine assault (5 marines and 1 sentry) with a boiler providing acid cover. Not to mention carriers that can take on 4 marines at once around corners..

Yea Xenos always has to resort to fighting while being outnumbered, unless it's late game.. In early game, this is more accurate:
► Show Spoiler
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image

Post Reply