Logistics rework

[MrGabol100]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): A rework of the marine positions, (Command and combat). Adding new roles.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Easier, more lore-friendly, and generally better way of distributing the people to report to command.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Using the movie positions and real USMC NCO Ranks and Platoon Structure, I created this Diagram, which explains new order of Command-Combat Positions.
Command:
Commander - Commander
Executive officer - 1st Lieutenant
2 Platoon Leaders - 2nd Lieutenants
Combat:
2 Platoon Sergeants - E-7 / E-8
4 Squad Leaders - E-5 / E-7
8 Squad Medics - E-4 / E-5
8 Squad Engineers - E-3 / E-5
4 Squad Specialists - E-2 / E-4
Squad Marines - E-1 E-3 The platoon Leaders:
They are replacing the 2nd Lieutenants bridge officers, they are basically Scott Gormans, COs assigned to a platoon of their own, they have two squads assigned at round start each, the first joiner, Alpha and Bravo, and the late joiner Charlie and Delta, they use their overwatch consoles as BOs would do, as their number is reduced from 4 to two, they have the help of the platoon sergeants which are assigned to them to appoint which squad needs assistance, with a quicker switch than the actual system (You have to completely log out to change squad) on the overwatch consoles, this will be way quicker and reduce the players needed to sit in an office.
Their headsets are in the bridge now, with the assigned squads (Not sure if you can spawn a specific headset for their exact squads), these are command headsets with two of the squad keys removed.

The platoon sergeants:
They are ranks E-7 and E-8, they directly (From the field) command a platoon, assigned two squads as the platoon leaders, and must report to the platoon leader with the same squads, they deploy with the marines, and are one step above the squad leaders, they have command radios with keys for their two squads in their preparation rooms, instead of full command radios (They are combat roles, they don't have to listen to engineering or medical, or the squads they don't control).
They are the same roles as Apone, which technically reported back to his CO, Gorman, they have direct control over their squads and the overwatch would have an option to contact platoon sergeant, along with squad contacts, of course. They receive squad leader gear without the orbitals, or the explosives.

The squad leaders:
Now assigned a regular squad radio, they are directly under the control of the Platoon Sergeant, they do their job as usual, and must report to the platoon sergeant the beacon deployments and etcetera.

All of this is based on the movie ranks and structure, and is supossed to follow it to the letter.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
-Make changes in the overwatch consoles for quicker squad swap.
-Cycle BOs out for Platoon Leaders and reduce their number.
-Insert Platoon Sergeants with SL vendors with fewer objects.
-Add a bunch of Joining messages that assign you your 2 squads.
-Insert two pairs of new headsets, Two alpha and bravo, the first one with Sulaco keys and the second one without, and another pair with Charlie and Delta.
-Change some clothing names for the Platoon Sergeants.

That's all, don't go too hard on me.

[LordeKilly]

+1, lets go for it lad

[Killaninja12]

+1, Would very much like to see stuff like this incorporated in.

[Halinder]

Not quite sure about the usefulness of platoon leaders. Hell, they're just slightly downgraded Bridge Officers that'll get exhausted faster than normal, aren't they?

[MrGabol100]

Not quite sure about the usefulness of platoon leaders. Hell, they're just slightly downgraded Bridge Officers that'll get exhausted faster than normal, aren't they?

Would have the right to deploy with the marines anytime wanted, and they have the control about half of the marines each one, instead of just randomly skipping over squads or going to the cantina and do nothing, they would have an actual obligation about their squads, and report in their name.

[Halinder]

Wouldn't it be better to just have the Platoon Sergeants run things on the ground? They sound like Bridge Officers, just with the ability to leave the Sulaco.

[MrGabol100]

Wouldn't it be better to just have the Platoon Sergeants run things on the ground? They sound like Bridge Officers, just with the ability to leave the Sulaco.

The platoon sergeants are indeed supossed to be running EVERYTHING on the ground, but the Platoon Leaders can go overwatch the FOB as the XO can, or the Commander can.

They are literally Bridge Officers, just specifically assigned to their squads and with deployment freedom.

They are there to help structure the command, instead of having a bunch of loose BOs.

[Potatohboi]

+1 all the way,would feel more marine-ish

[MauroVega]

+1 Marine-Seption

[forwardslashN]

Neutral.
Seems like a lot of reworking stuff for not much gain. A lot of marines have issues following orders, not to mention chain of command, so I dunno how useful this will be.

[MrGabol100]

Neutral.
Seems like a lot of reworking stuff for not much gain. A lot of marines have issues following orders, not to mention chain of command, so I dunno how useful this will be.

Forces marines to actually follow orders if they want to have command assistance, this chain of command is very simplified.

Also the lore-part and actual IRL platoon structure.

[Tristan63]

+1 I think the Platoon sergeant should have one member and be the Sargent Major (Not Sargent major of the USCM, thats different)

[LordeKilly]

+1 I think the Platoon sergeant should have one member and be the Sargent Major (Not Sargent major of the USCM, thats different)

That defeats the purpose of the hierarchy. The point is to make everything linear and allow chain of command to actually be present, not just adding a role that people will bail out and screw over a ton of people. Like playing antag on a server without and AI, it makes shit difficult because it wasn't meant to be played that way.

[apophis775]

We already have a rank/command structure. I'd rather not change it up again for no reason.

[MrGabol100]

We already have a rank/command structure. I'd rather not change it up again for no reason.

But apop, it has a reason, to make it easier to play our actual command structure, people likes to command, but they don't like to sit in the bridge, and to make the chain of command easier, also it follows the movie lore and actual IRL command structure, people are having positive feedback on this, and It isn't much of a job, I beg you to consider this for when you have time, really deep on the to-do list.

Edit: Also begging for a wiki change of the Specific ranks of jobs, based on the movie and IRL, the ranks are more like on the OP than what we actually have.

Scott Gorman: Platoon Leader / 1st Lieutenant
Al Apone: Platoon Sergeant / E-7 (Gunnery Sergeant (Uniform rank, "Actual rank" trough the whole movie)) / E-8 ("Canon" Rank, shown on a console).
Dwayne Hicks: Squad Leader / E-4 (Corporal)
Cynthia Dietrich: Squad Medic / E-4 (Corporal)
William Hudson: Squad Technician / E-2 (Private First class)
Mark Drake: Squad Specialist / E-2 (Private First class)
Jenette Vasquez: Squad Specialist / E-2 (Private First class)
Ricco Frost: Squad Marine / E-1 (Private)
Tim Crowe: Squad Marine / E-1 (Private)
Trevor Wierzbowski: Squad Marine / E-1 (Private)

My point is that the ranks within a job are a wide range and this would allow to RP your character without people trying to enforce the wiki ranks, which don't really stand up for this, as you can see, Hicks could occupy the Squad Leader position when Apone fell because he was appointed next in command, why not the medic, you say, because she's also a corporal! (The IC eternal arguing about why would I obey my SL if he RPs a soldier of lower rank), because she's not fit for command, she's a corpsman.

The specialist and squad Technicians are no higher than PFCs, completely not Sergeants, so adding a wider range of ranks that actually fit the lore would be no more job than changing a few words and not trying to enforce your Roleplayed rank on other marines, only your Job should have any importance IC at all.

[apophis775]

SPOILER ALERT: The Movie was following the equivalent of a "special forces" squad.

We are following an actual batallion.

Also, I built the rank structure, from scratch, based on several factors.

We were having too many "I'M A GENERAL BUT I LIKE FRONTLINE SO FUCK YOU I'M NOT LISTENING" people, so the Rank got setup and won't be changing much from it's current setup probably ever.

[Wesmas]

Personaly the whole command structure feels...frustating to me. The lack of infomation which reaches the BO's makes their jobs difficult most of the time, and people tend to have the attitude of 'Screw command, they no nothing. They follow OUR orders because they suck.'
It also feels odd, because on a full crew you have a CO, an XO, then 4 BO's and 4 SL's. Who is in command of each squad? The BO, the SL? I understand why its like this, but it feels like we have too many layers between the CO and the squads. I guess I want the BO's job streamlined somehow...I shall think about what I wish to suggest.

[MrGabol100]

SPOILER ALERT: The Movie was following the equivalent of a "special forces" squad.

We are following an actual batallion.

Also, I built the rank structure, from scratch, based on several factors.

We were having too many "I'M A GENERAL BUT I LIKE FRONTLINE SO FUCK YOU I'M NOT LISTENING" people, so the Rank got setup and won't be changing much from it's current setup probably ever.

Apop, what I'm trying to defend is late joiners, why would you still not be able to defend your RP because you late joined and are grounded to play as Squad Marine? A wider range of ranks allows this, about the movie squad, they are not a Spec Ops squad, they are an actual batallion, the thing is, they only sent a part of it because WY arranged things to get all the marines infected and collect the information.

Of course I'm agaisn't the "I IS GENERAL BUT I AM OF DEPLOY COZ I'M SO HARDCOR KEKE", as I said, only job should matter following orders, and the actual capability of command, not the roleplay, but It's also annoying to state a rank trough radio on Sitreps or reporting in, and getting a dude spamming the wiki ranks page all over you for trying to roleplay.

"Oh, you cannot play a Gunnery because the wiki says squad leaders are specifically only Staff Sergeants".
"Oh, you cannot say you are a Private first class because the wiki says specialists are sergeants".
Etc...

Again, no one can enforce their RP over others, ever, that's why game mechanics exist, but it'd be nice to actually have some support on it.

Personaly the whole command structure feels...frustating to me. The lack of infomation which reaches the BO's makes their jobs difficult most of the time, and people tend to have the attitude of 'Screw command, they no nothing. They follow OUR orders because they suck.'
It also feels odd, because on a full crew you have a CO, an XO, then 4 BO's and 4 SL's. Who is in command of each squad? The BO, the SL? I understand why its like this, but it feels like we have too many layers between the CO and the squads. I guess I want the BO's job streamlined somehow...I shall think about what I wish to suggest.

One of the points adressed in the OP is the reduction of non-combat command roles, while putting half of the "BOs" on the ground as Platoon Sergeants and the other half with SPECIFICALLY assigned squads, not just "Generally overwatch all the squads", which is very vague and tends to confussion between the BOs, even sometimes having to get the command in the squad channel to do BO jobs, while he should be watching the big picture and getting reports from his executive officer, who should be talking to the officers to report back to the commander, so he can make decissions.

The actual chain of command is generally just very vague about the who commands who things, and this helps clear that up, while making it better for command to actually play, no one wants to be at the bridge on overwatch all the time, so lowering the job positions may help.

[apophis775]

Apop, what I'm trying to defend is late joiners, why would you still not be able to defend your RP because you late joined and are grounded to play as Squad Marine? A wider range of ranks allows this, about the movie squad, they are not a Spec Ops squad, they are an actual batallion, the thing is, they only sent a part of it because WY arranged things to get all the marines infected and collect the information.

Of course I'm agaisn't the "I IS GENERAL BUT I AM OF DEPLOY COZ I'M SO HARDCOR KEKE", as I said, only job should matter following orders, and the actual capability of command, not the roleplay, but It's also annoying to state a rank trough radio on Sitreps or reporting in, and getting a dude spamming the wiki ranks page all over you for trying to roleplay.

"Oh, you cannot play a Gunnery because the wiki says squad leaders are specifically only Staff Sergeants".
"Oh, you cannot say you are a Private first class because the wiki says specialists are sergeants".
Etc...

Again, no one can enforce their RP over others, ever, that's why game mechanics exist, but it'd be nice to actually have some support on it.

The point of the command system as it is, is to prevent people from using rank as a reason to disobey orders. It's also there to help people with their backstories. But the fact is that, the ranks listed are the locked down ranks. They will not change. There was discussion of using a "range" of ranks, but I don't like that Idea, and I feel it would makes things too complicated when a SL dies and everyone argues over who takes their place.

This rank system, is designed over MAXIMUM retention of command, so that there is no question who is in charge.

And I didn't mean they were actual "special forces' for the aliens squad, but that they were deployed similar. They sent a small team, instead of a battalion, which is what the ship was capable of transporting.


Anyway, short-term at least, DENIED. Long-term, if we add more jobs or merge/adjust how some jobs work I MAY rework the command structure, but this is what I'm aiming for. "ranges" for ranks, will never be a thing, it leaves too much room for people to go the "fuck-off I'm an X-ranked person" route.