Make Crushers Less Devastating

[Halinder]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Reduce some aspect of the crusher so that they're not the most OP alien out of the whole hive. Pick one.
-Reduce their tackle time. As it is, one crusher can easily balance 2 marines between tackles and slashes, since they're able to tackle for 5-10 seconds.
-Reduce their health. They have great armor, they really don't need the health buff that makes them able to survive to an 'injured' state while fighting 3 marines with M41A's and SMG's from three different sides.
-I don't know if charging needs reduced time. I mean, one managed to sprint away from marines and within 10 seconds they were sprinting back, charging fast enough to crit, but then again that's their thing so maybe don't touch this.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Make it so crushers can get into the thick of things, but not so much as to where they totally smash marines on lowpop.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Refer to the summary.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

[Siserith Vassada]

a lot of their strength comes from that fact that no one goes after them or knows how to combat them, they can be taken down pretty rapidly by one even two marines once their stomp is dropped, and while admins keep saying crusher slashes are weak, they seem as strong if not stronger than a ravager, they instantly remove/break limbs in a single slash, which supposedly they dont even have slashy limbs,


i would be all for a disarm/slash nerf but their health currently perfectly fits their roll

[MrJJJ]

The only thing I HATE about the crusher is his stun ability, we already have queen screech, why do we need even more ridiclously long stuns?, the rest i am somewhat fine with, maybe the damage a bit...

[Feweh]

I find there are only a select few good crushers and about 75% of the playerbase is awful with them.

[Derpislav]

-Reduce their tackle time.

Do just that and we're fine.

[MysteriousSpy]

I agree with the tackle thing, but that's about it. The rest is their selling point, being able to charge and having a large health pool and thick armor.
+1/3

[Hycinth]

This post was made because of me. I'm proud.

[Wickedtemp]

-1
Crushers aren't that difficult to kill.

[username123]

+1, aliens have too many fucking stuns, huggers, queen screech, weak acid and the crusher stomp, we all know that is not realyl the damage that kills you, it's the stun, and with 2-3 crushers in the hive plus the queen, you can literally stun lock a big group of marines.

[TheSlapDoctor]

Maybe an interesting lore-friendly nerf:

However, this unique mode of assault renders the Xenomorph virtually blind whilst charging, meaning it is often unable to alter its course should its target move out of the line of attack.

[forwardslashN]

Neutral.
I honestly don't want to see crushers nerfed since they are the most fun xeno caste to play. But...they are pretty damn strong if used by a competent player. But so is a ravager/boiler/praetorian/queen/you name it--I've seen just one tier three holding off 10 marines before by playing defensively.
Once a crusher uses the AOE stun, you can easily surround it and kill it, and crushers are very poor at maneuvering around or changing direction. So if anything, I think reducing the range on the AOE to 1 tile would work, since that 3 tile radius gives you a lot to work with and I cheese marines with it all the time. Picture below is the current area of effect.

► Show Spoiler

[Grypho]

Crusher is good for team play, but when it is alone you can kill it easily by chasing it and spamming your gun fire on it. The most dangerous ability when it is is alone is its damage, but it can be countered by remaining at 2-3 tile distance from the crusher all the time while chasing it. It is so slow that it cant do nothing to stop people from chasing it when in a space where it cant charge.

Ravager on the other hand... is good at soloing and you should not go against it alone.

All I would recommend is to nerf Crusher´s damage a bit but thats all.

[Sailor Dave]

Maybe an interesting lore-friendly nerf:

I think that would be a bad idea because of the stun from running into a wall. It would make charging nearly worthless because you wouldn't be able to stop before slamming into a wall and getting magdumped.

[Boltersam]

Crushers...are Tanks. That is their role. Reducing their health will reduce their ability to perform that role. The charge is a unique ability that no other xeno can perform, and it has much utility. But, Crushers are not damage dealers. they are the tank/crowd control in the MMO party. the Ravager is the DPS, Drones are the healers, and the Sentinels and Spitters are the support.

They all have a role to fufill, and they are fully capable of performing that role when people who know how to play as them, play as them.

The Crusher isn't a damage dealer, and I wouldn't mind maybe a slight nerf to its damage and tackle. but do not touch its health or charge. they are unique aspects of the crusher, and they work well. Hell, the charge can get you killed if you're not skillful, so it's both a blessing and a curse.

[Halinder]

Alright, so our idea is to reduce tackle times?

I'm saying this mostly because, while crushers are able to be defeated easily when surrounded by multiple marines, they absolutely devastate during lowpop. Tackling seems like the best way to have as little impact on the crusher in general while making it less powerful in lowpop -- it's not gonna be able to do much with a tackle to begin with if it gets surrounded by many marines, but when it can easily balance 2-3 marines between tackles and slashes, then lowpop becomes a slaughter.

[forwardslashN]

when it can easily balance 2-3 marines between tackles and slashes, then lowpop becomes a slaughter.

Most crusher players can't do this though, since it requires good timing and robustness. It's very hard to keep two determined marines down, since crusher tackle can still occasionally fail. I can't do it consistently.

[Halinder]

They can? From my experience, each tackle landed perfectly and didn't take retries.

[forwardslashN]

Tackle chance is very high but doesn't seem to be 100%, at least from my experience. Abby can probably clarify. Keeping two people down at the same time is very difficult regardless, since one of them can get up and move away immediately. I've had singular marines escape before, too. But that's what stomp is for.

Edit: Upon further testing, shotguns pretty much ignore crusher crest armor. And it is still very hard to keep two people down, especially if they are wearing helmets. Suppose you can cut some legs off instead.

[username123]

Crushers can stun a group of marines easily, throw two huggers at a marine that is stunned and then drag him to the hive like if nothing happened because of it's armor and health and the insane movement speed that they have when runing in a straight line, on top of that, there is no weapon that can counter the crusher because they can't be stunned with sadar rockets, or mines. An if they want to kill you, they just need to stomp and then slash you 2 or 3 times in the legs and you are dead making the crusher not only a caste to initiate fights, but to kill and hunt.

[GGgobbleCC]

I tried playing crusher for the first time yesterday, lagged into an egrille and died

Crushers have a high skill ceiling, and are fine as is. If anything buff their armor, they are very squishy for the 'tank' caste

[Derpislav]

Influenced by the last round, I'm changing my mind and saying "Okay, that stomp is a tad bit too powerful."

[Egorkor]

well in that round your defences were ran into by three crushers at the same time so.
dunno, reducing the tackle time might work, I didn't play crusher that much to really have an opinion of them as a caste.

[TopHatPenguin]

I think crushers are fine by themselves but they become rather op in a group of 3 for instance, so perhaps just have a caste limit on them?

[forwardslashN]

I think crushers are fine by themselves but they become rather op in a group of 3 for instance, so perhaps just have a caste limit on them?

We really need a cap on the number of tier threes a hive is allowed, as that would solve a lot of problems. Three ravagers + three crushers are enough to make a marine victory impossible. But I agree, I don't think crushers are that powerful on their own.

[MilesWolfe]

yea we need caps