Aliens dont tackle, or spam "Disarm intent"

[Tristan63]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Remove the disarm intent from aliens

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Make defender castes such as Praetorian's, sentinels, and spitters an actual hive defense job. And not have any o'l alien just spam disarm intent and defend that way. Gives marines a fair chance to get out instead of a fuckton of aliens spamming disarm intent. Makes the aliens use Devour more often, and also will promote using defender castes to bring things back to the hive.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Just remove disarm intent all together, so that spitting castes can actually defend the hive and do their roles that way. And lets be honest if an alien has huge claws how can they shove people down in the first place without harming them? makes no sense and was never done by any alien in any alien movie.

[Zilenan91]

Disarm can't be simply "removed". The entire game will need to be altered to fit its absence because currently it's basically the entire thing Xenos are balanced around being able to do.

[tuzz]

If you remove disarm then aliens will pretty much always kill or cut off feet/hands. Without disarm aliens won't be able to nest hosts. Marines already get plenty of chances to escape.
-1

[Halinder]

If you're using "xenos in the movie" to back you up, let's see what they did in the movie:
- Tailstabbed you so that you were stunned by pain and horrific damage, but kept alive just long enough to breed.
- Bit out half of your brain so that you were left completely incapable of resisting, even if you still have the mental capacity to want to.
- In the movies, particularly in the prison, runners didn't knock people down; they grabbed them and pulled them away, so strong that grown men could be handled like toys.

The first two will not be used because no one wants to get hit by one attack and be out for the rest of the game by every single xeno caste. The third would demand that, if disarm is removed, all xeno grabs instantly neck-grab marines, which has its ups and downs. But to remove disarm intent completely with no alternative? That would completely cripple low-pop hives who can't afford the diversity, for one, secondly it would further invalidate the boiler caste because it would make praetorians SO much more important, and thirdly, consider what happens when a xeno tacklespams you (and prepare for another list).

One or more xenos have to drag one marine all the way back to the hive, taking a minute or more. This is significant because:
1. Defending castes and crushers already have the best tackle RNG and lengths, meaning that non-defenders and non-crushers already see decreased tackle chances and times that make their job dangerous since a single failed RNG means the marine gets one or two shots off (consider being a drone or runner and an M41A marine burst fires into you twice, you're likely dead).
2. Xenos often max out at 20 population on a good day. Typical rounds start with 40+ marines. Tacklespamming requires the xenos to completely give up everything to take out one of those 40+ marines. Naturally this skews things with low-pop rounds, so there does need to be some balance there, but not the complete removal of disarming. A cooldown between tackles depending on what caste you are, maybe.
3. The xeno is slowed while pulling and disarming said marine. The marine also typically has their armor light on, or a xeno's nightmare, a flare in their pocket. Surrounding marines thus have a fantastic chance of spotting and catching up to the xeno, shooting it to bloody pieces.

[Jack McIntyre]

-1

I think there needs to be a new system to stop the tackle spam, but really it would be silly to remove it completely. There just has to be another way for them to give marines a chance to fight back, but at the same time allow them to put a marine down who is fighting back.

[forwardslashN]

-1

I think there needs to be a new system to stop the tackle spam, but really it would be silly to remove it completely. There just has to be another way for them to give marines a chance to fight back, but at the same time allow them to put a marine down who is fighting back.

So, if we ever implement the system where like, you actually grab marines and drag them to the hive instead of hugging, this is something I had in mind:
Disarm functions more like an actual tackle/backhand, where the alien has a chance to either knock the marine's weapon a distance away (like with throw), knock the marine back a short distance and stun them (like being punched by a hulk), or both.

[Aeleto]

That would imply aliens would get way more lethal, and not fun as you'd get killed pretty quickly. Might as well remove the pulling speed penalty for aliens.

[MrJJJ]

Neutral, i don't think this is even possible to remove from the game is it? i have no idea

[qsleepy]

-1 play moar

[Wickedtemp]

-1
That's quite literally the only way Xenos can drag marines to the hive. Grab, pull, tackle spam until they're nested.

[MrJJJ]

-1
That's quite literally the only way Xenos can drag marines to the hive. Grab, pull, tackle spam until they're nested.

I guess someone forgot huggers and carriers still exist...

[Toroic]

I guess someone forgot huggers and carriers still exist...

That lasts for maybe 45 seconds. Not enough time to drag someone very far, particularly if they're having to worry about being shot at.

[MrJJJ]

That lasts for maybe 45 seconds. Not enough time to drag someone very far, particularly if they're having to worry about being shot at.

if there is a drone nearby he can just build a combat nest

[Toroic]

if there is a drone nearby he can just build a combat nest

That's a pretty big if, and then you need someone to be able to defend that combat nest in the middle of nowhere.

Combat nests are honestly a lot more effective if you tacklespam, nest, then kill. They aren't good for infected marines being secure until they die.

[MrJJJ]

That's a pretty big if, and then you need someone to be able to defend that combat nest in the middle of nowhere.

Combat nests are honestly a lot more effective if you tacklespam, nest, then kill. They aren't good for infected marines being secure until they die.

not exactly a big if, i seen drones when marines assault come behind and plant weeds and run away super fast and it seems preety common, i don't doubt drones will always be close enough for other aliens, and again, carriers, just effective as hell, don't even need a tacklespam to get anyone, throwing huggers is enough to break they helmets, and if they want to, they can just decap said marine

[Toroic]

not exactly a big if, i seen drones when marines assault come behind and plant weeds and run away super fast and it seems preety common, i don't doubt drones will always be close enough for other aliens, and again, carriers, just effective as hell, don't even need a tacklespam to get anyone, throwing huggers is enough to break they helmets, and if they want to, they can just decap said marine

Have you actually played xeno?

Based on your post I suspect you haven't. Even with tacklespam it is a massive pain in the ass to move a marine any significant distance, and makihg that worse will mean xenos have to learn how to slash cripple every marine.

[MrJJJ]

Have you actually played xeno?

Based on your post I suspect you haven't. Even with tacklespam it is a massive pain in the ass to move a marine any significant distance, and makihg that worse will mean xenos have to learn how to slash cripple every marine.

Why i play xeno quite a lot, both sides in fact, marine and xeno, i have seen how "effective" it is to move any distance, massive pain? maybe its because you attacking multiple people alone maybe? or with slow xenos? i seen hunters, able with ease to move or scare off with a group of people marines easily and get one easy prey or two or even more

[Deadlymight]

Big -1. Without disarm intent aliens can't do shit. Also disarm is the core of ss13. If you are skilled enough you can outrobust anyone with disarm. Being "babysitted" is really annoying yeah, but an easy way to minimize the chance of you being captured is to just stay with a team. Most pople just wander off and get picked off.

[Logi99]

This could nerf Xenos horribly. I've seen marines kill aliens who were trying to capture them. Removing the tackle ability is annoying. Also devour is just the way to get killed. I would not try it unless I wanna turn into gibs.

[Toroic]

Why i play xeno quite a lot, both sides in fact, marine and xeno, i have seen how "effective" it is to move any distance, massive pain? maybe its because you attacking multiple people alone maybe? or with slow xenos? i seen hunters, able with ease to move or scare off with a group of people marines easily and get one easy prey or two or even more

Bullshit. You say you play xeno a lot but then just talk about what you've seen? If you had played xeno you'd know what it was like.

Crushers can tacklespam pretty reliably, but it's slow and a lot of work to move someone a distance. lower tiers it is less reliable and very likely the marine will be able to fight back despite being hugged and dragged off.

[MrJJJ]

Bullshit. You say you play xeno a lot but then just talk about what you've seen? If you had played xeno you'd know what it was like.

Crushers can tacklespam pretty reliably, but it's slow and a lot of work to move someone a distance. lower tiers it is less reliable and very likely the marine will be able to fight back despite being hugged and dragged off.

What, were you expecting a giant 300+ word pargraph of how i play alien?
I have PLAYED aliens and i do know its a bitch to get any marine to a nest SAFELY, and i been personally victim of a marine running out, grenades in pockets, and blowing themself up and everything around them, killing themself, any weak aliens, weeds, possibly eggs too and any nearby host goes into a red state or so, and i know how annoying it is, as a T3 to move super fucking slow as if you are turtle, but with no protective shell, or a shell that just sucks at defending, and how ridiclously it is to die as T1, the only balance between speed and being strong and having decent health is T2, and even THEN there is problems with it.

Tacklespam is what used to be preety much what aliens used, and its used STILL because its reliable and USEFUL, and its been around with us FOREVER, letting such a thing go is something many wish against, i am neutral on it, its not going to annihilate aliens if its gone, but it will force to aliens to re-adapt in a harsh way, and there is some tactics that already that have no need for tackle spam, such as placing a giant wall of resin walls (if you want more durability and marines able to counter, with a really slow method) or resin doors (which you can use to get hosts in or scare dem off or etc, whatever you planning to do) and placing huggers on them, forcing marines to waste bullets, and if they dumb, supplies of grenades and etc.
But nobody really uses them...for some raisins...

AS far as i still know drone is still fast, and when we were pre-alpha (aka old station, no crushers, boilers and all that stuff) drones were almost always somewhere on front lines, placing be either weeds, either melting, or making a nest for a recently captured marine so T3 won't drag them for way too long after doing a mass stun for example (queen) or a T2 won't have to nessecary die after being KOed on weeds inside marines range of fire, whatever it was, i always saw a drone, both as a alien, which helped a lot if he was competent, and annoying as a marine, i still see and even DO the said job on front lines but its not as common as it should be, because of the map probably. (and me not going drone much anymore, it started to...drag away from me on fun and replayability, just like the server itself)

Don't get me started on knifes and machete damage. (do aliens have like 150 health or something? knifes seem to be able to kill xenos in just almost as time, if not sometimes faster than a human if its a T1 runner for example)


Also this whole arguement started cause i commented that someone forgot huggers and carriers exist.

[Count_Swagula]

My two cents on the matter-
Yeah, the aliens are fast, strong, they're nimble, but..

Consider:
-As OP pointed out, Aliens have big claws.
-As numerous comments followed up with, aliens are vicious. They are dangerous. They're not dexterous by any means of the word.
-Aliens are meant to be extremely specialized castes. There are specialized means of transporting bodies be it devouring, facehugging, or neurotoxin. They don't /HAVE/ to be one man armies.
-Not to mention, think about how hard it would be to drag a fully armored and equipped, heavy, 200+ pound man across any environment (not just smooth tiles) when he's resisting you the entire way, with adrenaline, and his entire will to live. (Yes, tackle-spamming is a pain, but it really should be when you consider that.). Do you think that'd be an easy bloodless task?

Considering all of this, do you think it should be as graceful as simply pushing someone down, and them sitting there for a little bit while they are drug around?

I don't think that aliens should lose their ability to disarm somebody. I'm completely against it. It's a core mechanic and removing it would probably nerf them more than they need to be.

But I think it shouldn't be as... "Finesse" as it currently is. I think the aliens should have a chance to inflict a bit of damage when they disarm marines. It would discourage consistently spamming it and it would encourage coordinating with spitters and other alien castes to keep people subdued.

[Mitchs98]

-1. Disarm is no real issue. You can literally knife even a Queen into submission by juking around them. There's also this shiny new thing called a mag harness, slap a bayonnet on that and a gyro and congrats you're a pain in the ass until you burst, escape, or the aliens decide 'lol fuck you' and kill you. Bonus points if you have a smartgun instead, wreck the entire fucking hive.

Also protip: Chop your nest, not the wall or door first. Bitches can't nest you without a nest, and you can kill whatever comes into your 1x1 square of EAT MY DAMN KNIFE to re-build a nest at that point. Bonus points: Don't be a damn hive wrecking hero unless its something weak like a runner, drone, or hunter. You're worth much more RUNNING YOUR ASS OUT OF THE HIVE instead of tearing said hive up and dying. If you can escape, you're already competent enough to be a decent player in my book.

[spheretech]

As much as I'm for a big alien balance reform this isn't the way to do it.

[Azmodan412]

-1. Disarm is no real issue. You can literally knife even a Queen into submission by juking around them. There's also this shiny new thing called a mag harness, slap a bayonnet on that and a gyro and congrats you're a pain in the ass until you burst, escape, or the aliens decide 'lol fuck you' and kill you. Bonus points if you have a smartgun instead, wreck the entire fucking hive.

Also protip: Chop your nest, not the wall or door first. Bitches can't nest you without a nest, and you can kill whatever comes into your 1x1 square of EAT MY DAMN KNIFE to re-build a nest at that point. Bonus points: Don't be a damn hive wrecking hero unless its something weak like a runner, drone, or hunter. You're worth much more RUNNING YOUR ASS OUT OF THE HIVE instead of tearing said hive up and dying. If you can escape, you're already competent enough to be a decent player in my book.

Tell that to the marines who suicide in open nests with no xenos guarding them.