Allow Weeds On Grass

[ParadoxSpace]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
I don't know if you're in the know, but I know there's an issue, y'know? Alien weeds can't be placed on grass. Why?
Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Allow more than just the upper half of the map and some domes to be colonized by xenomorphs.
Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
It'd work like any other weed placing.
Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
I'm sure it's a simple toggle.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

I think there was a reason for this not sure what it was but there is.

[Azmodan412]

'This is no place to start a garden.' Wat? The entire planet is pretty much a garden. +1

*His face transforms into Professor Oak's* There's a time and place for everything, but not here.

[Artouris]

-1 and there was a very good reason why it wasn't put in.

It stems from a variety of fronts. First I'd be hard to see on grass and probably look bad. This is up for debate though. Second is that it's be overpowering for xenos. With the slowdown and healing they could just plant weeds everywhere and basically have health regeneration everywhere. Third. Even with weeds being East to destroy it's still a massive pain in the ass. Flamers can only do somuch before your back to smacking it. Finally combined with the previous facts Marines would turtle harder than ever. Because why should I leave if basically we're screwed as soon as we step outside.

If we made it so the weeds surrounding a node all died with the node then it's of a doable suggestion. Since it's not as big of a pain in the ass.

(Sorry for any spelling errors, did this off my phone in class)

[username123]

-1 and there was a very good reason why it wasn't put in.

It stems from a variety of fronts. First I'd be hard to see on grass and probably look bad. This is up for debate though. Second is that it's be overpowering for xenos. With the slowdown and healing they could just plant weeds everywhere and basically have health regeneration everywhere. Third. Even with weeds being East to destroy it's still a massive pain in the ass. Flamers can only do somuch before your back to smacking it. Finally combined with the previous facts Marines would turtle harder than ever. Because why should I leave if basically we're screwed as soon as we step outside.

If we made it so the weeds surrounding a node all died with the node then it's of a doable suggestion. Since it's not as big of a pain in the ass.

(Sorry for any spelling errors, did this off my phone in class)

This

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

I'd be okay with it, if it had a much higher plasma cost

[MrJJJ]

-1, Artouris described it perfectly, marines are already slow on weeds, and aliens get health regen on them, and its a pain in the ass to remove any weeds, and the resources that do it GREATLY, are very limited, while plasma is basically infinite

[Wickedtemp]

+1

Honestly doesn't take much to hack away weeds if more than two people are doing it. Yes, it can be a pain. It's SUPPOSED to be a pain. It's SUPPOSED to be an uphill battle for the marines. And it isn't exactly all that spammable either. Not every xeno caste has weeds, and drones are often in the Hive helping with the construction that they can't really be bothered with spreading weeds everywhere.

I mean, we had the prison map for a while, weeds could be planted pretty much anywhere on that map IIRC, and out of all of the issues I saw with that map (mostly people breaching, xenos breaking every light in the complex) the weeds never seemed to be that big of an issue.

Plus it doesn't really make sense mechanically. It's a jungle, you'd think weeds would absolutely flourish if planted.

[Sikillgard]

+1

Balance aside it never did made much sense to me why weeds can't grow on grass.

[Halinder]

+1

Honestly doesn't take much to hack away weeds if more than two people are doing it. Yes, it can be a pain. It's SUPPOSED to be a pain. It's SUPPOSED to be an uphill battle for the marines. And it isn't exactly all that spammable either. Not every xeno caste has weeds, and drones are often in the Hive helping with the construction that they can't really be bothered with spreading weeds everywhere.

I mean, we had the prison map for a while, weeds could be planted pretty much anywhere on that map IIRC, out of all of the issues I saw with that map (mostly people breaching, xenos breaking every light in the complex) the weeds never seemed to be that big of an issue.

Plus it doesn't really make sense mechanically. It's a jungle, you'd think weeds would absolutely flourish if planted.

Drones usually avoid the colony because pods are too cramped to make intricate defenses in, and building on the pathways is a joke. This would basically let xenos make hives anywhere except the river, which sounds pretty neat until you realize that the same courtesy is not extended to marines -- you can't put light tubes against jungle walls and most certainly can't lay down wires. Think of the planet in stages: The colony is highly supportive towards marine play, the barrens and river can play to either side, and the caves are highly supportive of alien play. Turning the entire planet into an alien playground.. not too sure about that one.

Maybe some lighter jungle tiles in the western jungle near the small sandstone building would allow aliens to have another base, but I don't think this is this is the solution.

+1

Balance aside it never did made much sense to me why weeds can't grow on grass.

In PvP games, balance is significantly more important.

-1

[Wickedtemp]

Drones usually avoid the colony because pods are too cramped to make intricate defenses in, and building on the pathways is a joke. This would basically let xenos make hives anywhere except the river, which sounds pretty neat until you realize that the same courtesy is not extended to marines -- you can't put light tubes against jungle walls and most certainly can't lay down wires. Think of the planet in stages: The colony is highly supportive towards marine play, the barrens and river can play to either side, and the caves are highly supportive of alien play. Turning the entire planet into an alien playground.. not too sure about that one.

Maybe some lighter jungle tiles in the western jungle near the small sandstone building would allow aliens to have another base, but I don't think this is this is the solution.
In PvP games, balance is significantly more important.

-1

Given the spawn points and the amount of space, I think you'd still mostly see the hive made in the caves. For the most part. If it's somewhere else, big deal, marines won't be able to meta and just get a hunch that they should check the caves and just HAPPEN to stumble across the hive.

Aliens are more versatile than marines. They don't need a flat foundation to build on, they don't require a source of power, they don't require four walls and a ceiling, they don't need to rely on supply drops, and they aren't limited in the fact that they don't need to rely on back-and-forth trips on the shuttle so they don't need to be close to the landing zones.

As such, the Xenos should have the ability to USE that to their advantage. Mechanically speaking Xenos are already at a disadvantage. They're outnumbered quite heavily pretty much every round, and even the survivors have the potential to really fuck things up. I've actually seen a round on low-pop where the survivor killed the Xenos solo before marines finished briefing.

The marines are landing on foreign land, with foreign creatures, one comment above mentions how marines would be more afraid to actually go out of the nexus. Good, that's kind of how it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be dangerous.

Honestly, from what I can tell, letting Xenos put weeds on jungle tiles won't be that big of a hit to marines. The flamer will be more useful, marines will actually have to be cautious, and this could lead to something interesting. Because right now, the jungle is essentially a giant gap of "No Man's Land". Letting Xenos plant weeds there would allow them to actually expand the hive outwards, giving both sides a clear sign of advancement.

Personally, I don't think a suggestion should be shot down because of "But then my favorite team might lose more!" I play more marines than I do xenos, and I'm interested in a challenge. Marines would actually have to TRY to destroy the hive, because as it is right now, all they have to do is rush and click on all the walls and doors to shoot them down because they're all made of paper, like Xenos. From what I'm personally seeing, the choice between Alien and Marine is essentially "Do I want to play on hard mode, or 2easy4me mode?" with how little effort it takes to get a marine major victory.

And I'd like to see that change. This would help push that change along into a nice medium difficulty for both sides.

[Boltersam]

Given the spawn points and the amount of space, I think you'd still mostly see the hive made in the caves. For the most part. If it's somewhere else, big deal, marines won't be able to meta and just get a hunch that they should check the caves and just HAPPEN to stumble across the hive.

Aliens are more versatile than marines. They don't need a flat foundation to build on, they don't require a source of power, they don't require four walls and a ceiling, they don't need to rely on supply drops, and they aren't limited in the fact that they don't need to rely on back-and-forth trips on the shuttle so they don't need to be close to the landing zones.

As such, the Xenos should have the ability to USE that to their advantage. Mechanically speaking Xenos are already at a disadvantage. They're outnumbered quite heavily pretty much every round, and even the survivors have the potential to really fuck things up. I've actually seen a round on low-pop where the survivor killed the Xenos solo before marines finished briefing.

The marines are landing on foreign land, with foreign creatures, one comment above mentions how marines would be more afraid to actually go out of the nexus. Good, that's kind of how it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be dangerous.

Honestly, from what I can tell, letting Xenos put weeds on jungle tiles won't be that big of a hit to marines. The flamer will be more useful, marines will actually have to be cautious, and this could lead to something interesting. Because right now, the jungle is essentially a giant gap of "No Man's Land". Letting Xenos plant weeds there would allow them to actually expand the hive outwards, giving both sides a clear sign of advancement.

Personally, I don't think a suggestion should be shot down because of "But then my favorite team might lose more!" I play more marines than I do xenos, and I'm interested in a challenge. Marines would actually have to TRY to destroy the hive, because as it is right now, all they have to do is rush and click on all the walls and doors to shoot them down because they're all made of paper, like Xenos. From what I'm personally seeing, the choice between Alien and Marine is essentially "Do I want to play on hard mode, or 2easy4me mode?" with how little effort it takes to get a marine major victory.

And I'd like to see that change. This would help push that change along into a nice medium difficulty for both sides.

It doesn't help that you get sentry guns to do your job for you.

Marines generally want to be badass heroes, heroes are badass because they defeat a more powerful enemy. Are aliens more powerful than the marines, who have to do nothing but sit inside a dome and occasionally click out in the darkness?

[Azmodan412]

Lorewise, yes. Game wise? Fat fucking chance. One marine is as robust as 2-3 runners in how much punishment they can take.

[Mitchs98]

-1 for reasons stated above unless some significant changes to weeds are made or to flamers. Flamers would need a SHIT TON more fuel if this was implemented OR the weeds would need to die REALLY quick once a node is cut down. Weeds are already annoying enough. No one wants to walk through a jungle that's covered out the ass with sticky resin, nests, eggs, walls, and doors. Marines will literally never assault if this is implemented, thus making rounds last ridiculously long.

In short: No, just..no.

[Morrinn]

-1, for reasons already posted.

[Logi99]

+1 Those who are complaining about flamethrowers. You know there's frikin tanks. YOu have knives! YOU HAVE EVERYTHING! YOU CAN STOP INFECTIONS EVEN THOUGHT IT'S NOT IN THE LORE! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!!!!!! It sounds like i'm being autistic here. I agree... But i'm being serious. IT just doesn't make sense for xenos not to put weeds in the jungle. Marines can kill aliens easily. You can fucking pull em so they can't escape. In all honesty Marines have way too many advantages and hence I agree that weeds should be grown on grass. Jeez.

[Mitchs98]

+1 Those who are complaining about flamethrowers. You know there's frikin tanks. YOu have knives! YOU HAVE EVERYTHING! YOU CAN STOP INFECTIONS EVEN THOUGHT IT'S NOT IN THE LORE! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!!!!!! It sounds like i'm being autistic here. I agree... But i'm being serious. IT just doesn't make sense for xenos not to put weeds in the jungle. Marines can kill aliens easily. You can fucking pull em so they can't escape. In all honesty Marines have way too many advantages and hence I agree that weeds should be grown on grass. Jeez.

Those tanks of plasma run out VERY fast. Knifing weeds is EXTREMELY time consuming, not to mention if aliens fortify the ever living shit out of the jungle. It just isn't practical without marines getting some big ass buffs to counter the entire forest being turned into a hive.

[Egorkor]

-1, weed's not supposed to be around everywhere, so jungle are kinda a safe haven in the weed ocean.

[Artouris]

Let me elaborate on my original post since that was a bit rushed.

The problem is do you really want this? Its not balanced at all. Marines, sure they have the tools to remove weeds and quite effective at that. But the tools either require a fuckton of elbow grease (aka anything in your hands) or run out of fuel quickly enough (flamer) that you'd clear the entire jungle before a hivelord or drones zooms by planting weeds again, starting the process over. It turns into a war of attrition to keep the weeds at bay due to the massive buffs xenos get while on weeds. Healing and slowdown for marines is killer. It gets worse when xenos just plant weeds off in a corner, and can keep zooming between nexus and their reinforced weed (and possibly resin wall) corner where they can heal and zoom back out to maim marines.

I mean if you do put it (without any nerfs to xenos or buffs to marines) here's what I see happening. First of all Marines would turtle the fuck out of the dome, they have no reason to leave if what they do gets undone in a matter of a minute. They don't need to leave either because all they have is defensive tools and they cannot push the offensive since its going to get bogged down and murdered the second it steps outside.
Xenos in the mean time roam with ease knowing most marines will be fucked since they can escape and heal rather quickly anywhere. Not only that but then they'll start getting angry that marines never go on offensive. At the same time the marine player base will also get angry (internally, if not externally) that they never go on the offensive ever either because they have no real way to do it without getting bogged down and facehugged. You'll see a bigger carrier meta of having 3-4 carriers planting weeds, bogging marines down, then face hugging them all when they move in small groups.

Like I don't want to knock this whole idea, I would love if xenos could reinforce pods they take over with resin walls and shit. But the way xeno gameplay is conducted and how some of the classes work (2 hivelords working in unison could weed the entire colony, and if you can place resin walls over that they can literally close off parts of the colony behind massive layers of resin structures) its really broken to put this in. This wouldn't level the playing field at all. Sure marines can build on jungle tiles, but you often don't seem them do it. Not to mention the really only massively effective defense marines have is e-grilles which cannot be made on jungle tiles because you can't lay cable.

Also in response to "this isn't really about balance, people want to shoot it down because i playz muhreens", that's not true. Unless we vastly improve marine capability to remove weeds en mass, xenos will always at this point have a vastly superior advantage or we nerf xenos somehow. Since we dont see xenos losing limbs, they dont need a medic to heal, they needs weeds. Weeds at this point would be everywhere and thus can heal anywhere and everywhere. Also if you cite one off examples, of survivors killing xenos solo, you can't use that to account for anything. Its a outlier and doesn't relate to the question at hand.

Wickedtemp, you basically say in your own post how it'd be overpowered. Aliens don't most of the stuff marines do. Even then if the material side was ok, you still have the command, you have to move things around, the logitistics of it becomes horrible and bogged. Xenos never have to deal with that. But then we allow weeds on grass and its a even more massive boon to the no resources required for xenoplay. Most Xeno castes already are worth more than a few marines, mainly due to their abilities/strengths.

Overall, my point still stands of a -1

[Lucius Jones]

+1 this makes no sense that weeds cannot be put on grass of all things, and it would make the marines run out for a kill instead of turtle inside due to the weeds healing the aliens.

[Sikillgard]

Haven't thought about it much, but what if this is mechanic is switched?

Weeds on grass instead of pavement? Leading to -> Roads are marine territory and off-road/natural environ = xenoes? Methinks this fits the alien versus human n all.

-1, weed's not supposed to be around everywhere, so jungle are kinda a safe haven in the weed ocean.

What about roads being the "safe haven" instead, makes much more sense thematically, notwithstanding lore of course.

[Deadlymight]

This would make marines turtle even MORE.
1. Big health regen that could and in most cases will save your life when your in crit as an alien.
2.Marines are SIGNIFICANTLY slower on weeds and make them voulnerable to alien attacks( most experienced players will know that It's essential to clean weeds when your attacking the caves).
3.Aliens can easily use the stealth abillity to hide in weeds which make them pretty much invisible when not moving.
If this gets changed marines will be like: "Oh, there's weeds everywhere I better stay in the FOB." And most likely there will be balance issues and people complaining how OP aliens are.
-1

[Boltersam]

Haven't thought about it much, but what if this is mechanic is switched?

Weeds on grass instead of pavement? Leading to -> Roads are marine territory and off-road/natural environ = xenoes? Methinks this fits the alien versus human n all.
What about roads being the "safe haven" instead, makes much more sense thematically, notwithstanding lore of course.

This sounds interesting. The paths will be the "safe routes" but they would be raided by aliens. Make your own suggestion, because if I write plus one it'll be used for the suggestion in the OP.

[ChickenShizNit8]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
I don't know if you're in the know, but I know there's an issue, y'know? Alien weeds can't be placed on grass. Why?
Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Allow more than just the upper half of the map and some domes to be colonized by xenomorphs.
Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
It'd work like any other weed placing.
Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
I'm sure it's a simple toggle.

....

No


This might, no offence, be the WORST suggestion I've ever read. You are pretty much suggesting that we give Aliens a speed boost and the ability to regan health ANYWHERE they want, ASWELL as slow any marines. Weeds can already be put on paths, so this would do nothing but slow marines and buff Aliens in the longrun,
-1

[ParadoxSpace]

itt: marine mains being upset