THE GREAT HARVEST! (Or mining implement in short)

[Sarah_U.]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Good day, I would like to suggest improvements to the already in place mining system and possibly implement new ideas; Simply put, add stone as a material and make it possible for the SULACO MTs to harvest the asteroid fields in space around the ship (More asteroids too)... For materials of all types depending of whichever you choose.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
It will give a better purpose for MTs and other personal that don't have anything to do... Even maybe survivors who knows. It'll also increase the supplies of ressources and offer some ACTUAL space roleplay and action/development.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
For the stone part, I'd like to simply make all rocks walls drop a stone material. The stone material makes the following: Stone slab, [WEAK] Walls (Can be broken down like crates do), [Your ideas here]...
Whenever someone cut down a stone wall from the caves and whatnot it'll have a percent chance to drop stone.

Furthermore for the space part, adding some materials to the asteroid belts and actually having more asteroid chunks would be nice to make it so space miners could use mining equipment and retrieve SOME metal and other materials for the SULACO. A group / a person mining the asteroid belts would find a few materials and bring em' back onboard to a smelter where he could start making some extra materials... Obviously the persons in space still count as out of the map and don't count if they make a base out there with these materials.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Add a few rocks, create the stone material and implement it in the drop rate of the rocks, add a smelter to engineering, done.

[Surrealistik]

+1. I'm all for anything that gives the CE and MTs shit to do.

[Helgraf]

+1 i agree for about the same reason

[coolsurf6]

Linked:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=7297&p=77648#p77648

[Surrealistik]

This suggestion needs more love:

Requisition and engineering get resources/building materials, including stuff Req can send away for more requisition points (like diamonds/gold/silver, etc).

Research gets analyzer/building materials.

Engineering gets shit to do.

Survivors get shit to do.

Everyone wins.

[Sarah_U.]

Requisition don't get any points from anything but waiting from what I've tested, but otherwise yea, I'm surprised there's not a lot of comments or reply on it.

[Surrealistik]

They should when mining is added, even if it's a small amount.

[Tristan63]

+1 This could give colonists a job who can't do much.
Also makes boring rounds sorta fun I guess.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, true, Colonists could easily be sent to work in the (salt) mines, also giving them something to do.

[Staff Assistant]

+1. I'm all for anything that gives the CE and MTs shit to do.

This.

[Desolane900]

This suggestion needs more love:

Requisition and engineering get resources/building materials, including stuff Req can send away for more requisition points (like diamonds/gold/silver, etc).

Research gets analyzer/building materials.

Engineering gets shit to do.

Survivors get shit to do.

Everyone wins.

Bumping for muh content. Also, you forgot to add something for MPs to do.

[KingKire]

+1/-1. Depends on how it was implemented. The SULACO is a military vessel after all, and cannon-wise, it seems silly for the engineers and cargo techs on the ship to be out mining in space when a battle is going on. This also brings up some balance points as
- What do xenos do if their are miners working on the asteroid?
-Do the miners automatically count as not in the game if they are off the ship?
-What happens if the other engineers or cargo techs go SSD?
-What if the marines decided to build a fort in the asteroid field and use it to reattack the SULACO?
-Do you create a smelting furnace for the ore or is the minerals shipped back via cargo for supply points?
- Do you create a whole other z-level for the mining belt or just have the asteroids nearby?

-A small caveat to that idea would be to have the minerals located on the ground, which would solve alot of the previously stated issues, but then the question pops up of where do you fit the minerals at?

Its not a bad idea, but it could be really wonky if implemented badly, and there might be more fitting ways to keep the cargo techs and maintenance techs busy.

[Sarah_U.]

+1/-1. Depends on how it was implemented. The SULACO is a military vessel after all, and cannon-wise, it seems silly for the engineers and cargo techs on the ship to be out mining in space when a battle is going on. This also brings up some balance points as
[...]
Its not a bad idea, but it could be really wonky if implemented badly, and there might be more fitting ways to keep the cargo techs and maintenance techs busy.

Here's the answer to your questions:
- Space automatically counts you out of the round.
- You loose communication with the sully if you go 1-2 tiles away from the furthest edge of it.
- Building forts in space takes FOREVER and it's a general pain... Overall, if you're at the point where you're making a fort you deserves to be chased down by space DS and/or live for next round by yourself.
- If one wen't SSD in space he'd get job-banned if found. Blocking a role is against the rules and it's always been from my knowledge.
- Smelting it can be done with a welder from memory. Otherwise a smelter could always be put around the map?
- Just make the marines find the materials from the existing rocks. We don't need more as there's already over 60 tiles of rock in space and a WHOLE LOT on the map.
EDIT: - I forgot one; Cargo don't receive points other than waiting. Please get rid of the idea of sending ANYTHING aboard the shuttle it's a waste of ressources and you should feel ashamed.

Hope that answers your questions.
I don't promote the idea of making it easy for the sully to already have the equipment though. My best bet would be to have the smelting and mining equipment on the ground (Secure storage?) and sent up.
As you said, military ship. Someone gotta make sure it runs smoothly and worse comes to worse MPs gonna yell for at least one MT to stay onboard and keep it floating... Which gives work for MPs when they complain.

[Surrealistik]

Not being able to convert resources into Requisition is a bad idea; should definitely be a thing, even if the point rewards need to be tweaked.

[Sarah_U.]

In the past (and you're aware of that I guess) people sent phoron 24/7 trying to get points and they abused it enough that the staff removed the feature to prevent abuse. Lately I've even discovered only time gives points as crates and manifests simply don't return anything.

[Surrealistik]

I think it's possible to set the values such that you get a meaningful reward rather than one that's abusive, which should be the goal, rather than eliminating Requisition rewards entirely and eliminating a lot of incentive to work.

[Ocnjak20]

Survivors = Free slavery for the mines. Are we in Lotr or something?

[Snypehunter007]

Requisition and engineering get resources/building materials, including stuff Req can send away for more requisition points (like diamonds/gold/silver, etc).

This is the probably the best reason for this post because it would allow Cargo/CTs/RO(s) to gain more points for late round orders and provide materials straight to the marine engineers who (if they order metal or plasteel from the RO and Req has enough points) have to wait somewhere around 5+ minutes just to get metal. This would not be possible when the Xenos start boarding. Say the announcement that "An Unknown entity has accessed the shuttle console", all of a sudden a miner comes back with a ton of plasteel and metal from the asteroids. Lots of metal or plasteel and good engineers = gooooooood defenses.

[Surrealistik]

Survivors = Free slavery for the mines. Are we in Lotr or something?

They owe the USMC their lives and will repay their blood debt accordingly in the Mines of Moondor.

[Sarah_U.]

Well, I mean, the rock would also be quite nice, but I feel like I'll need to remake the suggestion in multiple parts to make it happen properly. At least for the mining part. Rock defences will be scrap right now considering xenos pass through GIRDERS like swiss cheese.

[Ocnjak20]

No really, do explain how mining is important to Sulaco as it is military vessel and not station like on other servers? Survs can always be jan's or box delivery for RO. Research always gets their paws on stuff and makes stuff so they are covered, engineering well they fix fix fix and make SM blow up.

[Surrealistik]

Engineering doesn't do shit outside of starting the core; the only time they ever get an iota of activity is when the aliens invade, or retard Mercs/cancer Sulaco Preds fuck up the ship. The last time I played CE weeks ago I ended up building a comprehensive and useful disposal tube transport network that actually featured minimal risk of injury by replacing corner pieces with chutes and launchers, until one (1) person complained and the admins deleted all the access/exit ports; after that, there was exactly nothing to do for the rest of the round, and I have never played CE or MT since because fuck that noise.

Personally I don't care about the rationalization so much as the gameplay implications, all of which are great.

[KingKire]

Okay, i now know why i dont like this idea.

Mining is a very low interactive role. This coupled with the fact that engineers and cargo techs are already a low interactive role is very bad. Mining astroids in space essentially gives a legal reason for a role to go for all intents and purposes "SSD".
-The only form of interactivity when mining is between the miner and whatever they are mining. There is no enemy, no paticular skill, its just you and the rock.
- a miner usually spends 10, 30, and sometimes an hours plus time mining the asteroid belts.
- Regular space station 13 is fine with people working their jobs in a bubble. The general goal of regular ss13 is to just survive the rounds. Colonial marines (attempted) goal is to have everyone work together to defeat the other side. Having a role where the only time you meet other players being the short 5 minute period when you drop off your rocks is bad, both gameplay wise and roleplaying wise, IC and OOC.



-This does not cure the main problem at heart, in fact it may dilute and worsen it further. Engineering and cargo ( as well as survivors and military police for a greater or lesser extent) have no direct impact on how the battle is going. Command directly orders what troops should do, medical directly keeps soldiers alive. Engineering can make the SM engine 160% more effective at running, and do nothing to stop the aliens killing troops. cargo has a little closer impact at affecting the battle by giving guns and ammo, but still its an indirect action at best. cargo didnt do much other than pull a crate from the cargo bay to the hanger bay.

- now, i dont mind people going to the surface to mine as much because it forces players to interact with each other. The miners must work with the troopers or they are going to get killed, the miners directly interact with the aliens as the latter is trying to kill them. Every time the miners go up or down, they are constantly interacting with people. On the dropship, at the FOB, at the mines (with the aliens and marines guarding them) back the other way, with the cargo office/ research/ command if they found interesting items.



( i made a very good reply but god i hate that i hit send but i was logged out and had the post deleted. much saltiness at why we even allow people to write comments like that)

[Surrealistik]

Okay, i now know why i dont like this idea.

Mining is a very low interactive role. This coupled with the fact that engineers and cargo techs are already a low interactive role is very bad. Mining astroids in space essentially gives a legal reason for a role to go for all intents and purposes "SSD".
-The only form of interactivity when mining is between the miner and whatever they are mining. There is no enemy, no paticular skill, its just you and the rock.
- a miner usually spends 10, 30, and sometimes an hours plus time mining the asteroid belts.
- Regular space station 13 is fine with people working their jobs in a bubble. The general goal of regular ss13 is to just survive the rounds. Colonial marines (attempted) goal is to have everyone work together to defeat the other side. Having a role where the only time you meet other players being the short 5 minute period when you drop off your rocks is bad, both gameplay wise and roleplaying wise, IC and OOC.

-This does not cure the main problem at heart, in fact it may dilute and worsen it further. Engineering and cargo ( as well as survivors and military police for a greater or lesser extent) have no direct impact on how the battle is going. Command directly orders what troops should do, medical directly keeps soldiers alive. Engineering can make the SM engine 160% more effective at running, and do nothing to stop the aliens killing troops. cargo has a little closer impact at affecting the battle by giving guns and ammo, but still its an indirect action at best. cargo didnt do much other than pull a crate from the cargo bay to the hanger bay.

You know what's worse than not getting valuable resources for the crew?

Doing literally nothing.

Honestly mining in order to contribute to the war effort by refining plasteel and commodities that can be translated into Requisition is hella more fun than building some dumb bar (which the admins hate anyways, and actually impedes Marine performance by serving as a massive distraction). It's relaxing, and lends itself to a sense of progress. Also it gives me an environment in which I can build useful disposal tube relays for maximizing mining efficiency.

If I could rebuild the ship in some meaningful way to improve the efficiency of the war effort that would be great, but the admins hate it when you do this with the only effective means (i.e. disposal tubes).

- now, i dont mind people going to the surface to mine as much because it forces players to interact with each other. The miners must work with the troopers or they are going to get killed, the miners directly interact with the aliens as the latter is trying to kill them. Every time the miners go up or down, they are constantly interacting with people. On the dropship, at the FOB, at the mines (with the aliens and marines guarding them) back the other way, with the cargo office/ research/ command if they found interesting items.

Where would you put the mining areas? Also you have to keep in mind the opportunity cost; if it takes the marines more resources to defend mining than the benefit it commutes to the war effort, it becomes largely pointless.

[KingKire]

I understand that engineering right now is really, really limited in its actions. but for the overall health of the game, its important that all the players tend to stay inside the general "boundaries" of the playing field. This is a story about marines vs. aliens.

If you were filming, or writing this game as a movie or a book, how interesting would it be to have a chapter dedicated to a miner mining in space, or 20 minutes to a chef cooking. It would be very boring ( albeit one could say contrasting) slice of life picture versus the real story. As some people would admit, a majority of the time, life in the military is boring. We dont want to fill Colonial marines with more of those boring moments. We try to keep the boring stuff to a minimum, just enough to keep the suspension of disbelief going so we can have a better story.


I personally dont agree with mining on the ground in particular either, but i would feel like if the game mechanic of mining were to be implemented, putting it on the ground would be the best way to integrate it. As for opportunity costs, the same could be said of mining in space. why send out engineers to go mine the asteroids when it would be much quicker to just program a crate from high command called " mineral shipment".

I believe this question about mining is not "What's the best way to get minerals on the SULACO". The question is "Whats a fun interactive way we can get engineers actually doing stuff that helps out instead of sitting around doing nothin on the SULACO." I dont think mining out in space is particularly more fun or more interactive then building a corpse chute or a bar in the cafeteria.


i'm not gonna lie, i love me some mining. I'm the type of person who can find joy in repetitive tasks. i like not having to worry about other players some times, and i like the compulsive joy that mining every tile of an asteroid and leaving nothing gives. But i understand that it doesn't fit in this particular game mode or at least not easily.