Make aliens resistant but not immune to space

[TeDGamer]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Simple. Rid the aliens of their space immunity, but let them have a resistance to space.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Every few rounds or so, I would see the aliens breach. No matter what, they think it's a great idea. Usually, all it comes with is a warning. I don't think I've seen a ban as of yet but it seems like a slap to the wrist considering it would still affect atmos (probably bad, because space comes into the calculations moreso) for that round as well as the marines who came charging at them trying to kill them, now suffocating because we're not wearing our cool alien genes that allows us vacuum protection.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
I'm not too well versed in the lore here, so do forgive me if this suggestion is non canonical.

All I know is from the wiki, and from the wiki, xenomorphs are known to survive in space, but there's a catch. So far, it's only been observed that it's for short periods of time. Therefore, I thought while playing the game as another breach just occurred, why not make it so that the breach affects them somewhat too. Of course, don't let them lose all of it according to the lore, but make it so that it punishes them. After all, they can still close it themselves. That way, it would be a bit fair considering it does affect marines heavily and is punishable yet plenty of aliens do it.

This should very much likely reduce the fact that an alien would even attempt to breach or think about breaching. Because if they do, they're the ones who are going to suffer as well as the marines. The way I see it is that the admins need to take time to fix this (usually) like our super genetically modified monkey or our hulk engineer from weeks back. This way, it's not just a slap in the wrist, it's also a way to stall progress if they think they can breach and get away with just a warning. I'm not sure if admins actually keep track of who breaches every few rounds, but I don't think this is something that is usually looked into.

After all, the only time aliens are ever exposed to space thus far from what I've seen in whiskey outpost and LZ, is only on the Sulaco. It won't change anything else. It'll only affect them when they're on the Sulaco and only if they breach. Other than that, won't affect gameplay at all.

Marines are never going to intentionally breach as it's (still) much more worst for them than it is for the aliens. This doesn't need to change.

Even if marines go into space, it doesn't affect the game because of the fact that marines in space count as them being dead/ alien victory progress.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Don't know how to code but get rid of whatever flags are making them space immune and add the flags that a human would have in space if he was wearing half of the space suit outfit or something.

[darklizard45]

What about... making the xenos loose plasma while they are in space

[Solacian72]

Don't xenomorphs generally need warm climates to endure? Space isn't that warm, so this would make sense.

[MrJJJ]

What about... making the xenos loose plasma while they are in space

This was in pre-alpha, but some xenos had such big regen, they would never die when they were in space

[TeDGamer]

I rather not make them lose plasma as JJJ suggested above. Losing health slowly over time makes more sense, because if they could survive in space, I think the xenos race would've dominated planets just by spacedrifting a few drones.

[Boltersam]

+1, though the Aliens are harmed when breaches throw them around, a little more incentive not to breach couldn't hurt.

[Yacobpo157]

+1, this happens far too often and is annoying. Now it will be slightly more fair when I fight in space.

[Sarah_U.]

Make them immune if they sleep. Giving them the same principle as hibernating to prevent degeneration of cells.
Though what I'd say is that xenos should be able to take damage from suddently swapping climate or pressure, then adapt to it.

The alien in Alien 1 literally hates cold and fire, but going in space just piss it off; It don,t need to breath to begin with, and the only issue it has is that it's going to die if it enters an atmosphere or get squashed if it hits anything due to physic...
^Thus why no space xeno are a thing as per hive logic... Then again, they won't really mind doing it as we've seen in isolation.

[Jroinc1]

Yeah.
+1 to small, constant damage from lack of PRESSURE. Marines can easily get emergency air tanks, which don't really affect their combat potential, but full-blown, 0 kpa, like 4 walls and all the airlocks melted BREACHES, need spacesuits to be survivable, and those are annoying to find.

[coroneljones]

Breaching is already against the rules
There are only two ways xenos could end up in space without them breaching
Using EVA,or the execution chamber if the shutters are open
Or if the marines themselves breach


On the topic of xenos being able to travel in space,didnt the alien travel with no trouble or risk,in space,in Isolation?

[Steelpoint]

In the movies the only time we've seen a Alien survive in a exposed vacuum is at the end of the first movie, and this was only for a short period of time however.

Game wise and all we don't really know if Aliens can survive indefinitely in hard vacuum of if they simply can survive in that environment for a very extended period of time.

Gameplay wise I would support Aliens succumbing in space after a certain period, since it'll put a hard cap on how long they can stay in space in rare instances that occurs.

[TeDGamer]

Yet another two rounds in a row where there were breaches on the aliens part ( and one that was marines part with the SADAR in an earlier round).

Please do not lock this thread even if it is rejected, there should be a compromise on what can be done with aliens in space / breaching really only affecting marines.

There have really only ever been slaps on the wrist, especially this round where one alien strongly suggested ( and definitely) breached causing many marine losses and the hangar unsuitable to all but aliens, making them near invincible there.

[Eonoc]

+1, I agree with the fact that they should slowly lose health, because otherwise, what's to stop the runner that hitched a ride on the pod from just going through EVA, squatting on the ass-end of the ship, and eventually becoming either an Ancient, or a Ravager?

[TeDGamer]

+1, I agree with the fact that they should slowly lose health, because otherwise, what's to stop the runner that hitched a ride on the pod from just going through EVA, squatting on the ass-end of the ship, and eventually becoming either an Ancient, or a Ravager?

I didn't think about that. This is very easily exploitable. Yeah they can just be on the sulaco the entire time upgrading at that point in prepartion for the assault and marines would never find them because they're in space

[genjufens]

-1 I like the idea of wanting to stop attempts to breach but this is so exploitable and the only reason a xenomorph is in a vacuum is by opening the eva doors on sulaco and walking out (In which case it's there fault they are now stuck floating in space), or someone breached the area they are in by explosion. While i play a xenomorph often, if i see another alien melt an outerwall, I report that cause greytide is not cool. If a xenomorph takes damage from vacuum what stops marines from simply removing all air in a room and reverse greytiding the ship to kill off aliens and/or just completely prevent any further advance into marine territory.

[Fourty2]

Directly from Xenopedia


Physical Abilities

The adult Xenomorph is a living weapon, noted for its ferocity and deadliness in any condition. Once fully matured, they have great physical strength and agility. They are masters of stealth; a favored method of acquiring prey is to wait in a dormant state until an appropriate victim strays near, and then drop down silently from behind or use its tail to impale whoever walks by. The prey is generally blind to the fact that a Xenomorph is present, due to its propensity to camouflage itself within its nest walls or the surrounding artificial environment given its bio-mechanical-like appearance. A Xenomorph will also use its pitch black carapace to its advantage, lurking in the shadows whilst waiting for prey to stray too close.

Xenomorphs are shown to be able to take extreme amounts of physical damage that would kill any Earth lifeform. An example of this is the Queen in Aliens survived a multi ton exo-suit falling on her from over 30 feet. Xenomorphs are capable of surviving with limbs shot off as seen in AVP3 the game and Aliens. Even stabbings and shots through the head (though total decapitation kills them) as seen in Alien vs Predator and its sequel are not guaranteed to kill Xenomorphs.

Adult Xenomorphs are quick and agile, and can clamber along ceilings and walls, a skill they exhibit freely whether they are evading others, attacking, or hunting. They can survive in extreme temperatures, are well-adapted to swimming, can respire in harsh atmospheres, and can survive in vacuum for short lengths of time. Their movement tends to be silent, and they do not radiate heat as their exoskeletal temperature matches the ambient temperature. They also salivate profusely. This saliva is not acidic, though some Xenomorphs do have the ability to spit acid, which may come from their stomachs, a special gland somewhere in their throats, or acid pouches lining the head. This can be used to blind victims, much like a spitting cobra.

The creatures possess no visible eyes; Giger mandated this in his original design, because he felt that it made the creatures much more frightening if one could not tell they were looking at them. In the Alien vs. Predator series, the game implies that the Xenomorph sees using its attack tongue.[5] In the original Alien film, the top of the creature's head was semi-transparent, with empty eye sockets of human appearance visible within. This element was dropped in later movies, but reused for the Predalien design, on the front portion of its skull.

In Aliens, the adult creatures are lacking the smooth carapace covering their heads. In the commentary for Aliens, it was speculated that this was part of the maturation of the creatures, as they had been alive far longer than the original Xenomorph. This maturation process involves the now adult Xenomorph shedding the smooth dome-like plate covering its head, leaving the skin underneath to be exposed. In Alien³, a fish-eye lens (which creates a perspective similar to that of a peephole) was used to depict the Xenomorph's sight. Whether this can be considered sight or just a filmed representation of the creatures' sensory perception is unknown.

However, in the novelization of the movie Alien, the creature is held mesmerized by a spinning green light for several minutes. Due to the absence of clearly visible eyes, it is possible that the creature uses echolocation to see its environment, much like bats. It may be for this reason that Xenomorphs hiss almost constantly. Though it may have the ability to see through an unknown structure, as they evolved differently from life on Earth. In the 2010 Alien vs. Predator game, it is mentioned on one of the Marine audio tapes that Xenomorphs have vision.

Xenomorphs may be able to detect their 'prey' through electro-reception. This is the method sharks use to detect even the most hidden prey. Creatures with the electro-reception sense can detect the electromagnetic field all animals produce allowing them to detect the creature's heart beat. This would explain how Xenomorphs always know where the humans are.

And, as depicted in the Aliens vs. Predator games, the Xenomorphs can also detect their prey using pheromones. Another theory is that the eyes of a Xenomorph are behind their black carapace and they see through it, similar to a one sided mirror (except in this case no one can see in, but the Xenomorph can see out). Some species of terrestrial fish such as the Barreleyes see through a transparent layer of skin; it is possible Xenomorph vision is similar.

Xenomorphs can also produce a thick, strong resin, which they use to build their hives and cocoon victims. Much like termites, they mix their viscous saliva with solids. It shows amazing heat and moisture-retaining qualities.

---

+1 With the condition that they can survive in vacuum for something like 90 seconds before taking health and/or plasma damage.

[TeDGamer]

-1 I like the idea of wanting to stop attempts to breach but this is so exploitable and the only reason a xenomorph is in a vacuum is by opening the eva doors on sulaco and walking out (In which case it's there fault they are now stuck floating in space), or someone breached the area they are in by explosion. While i play a xenomorph often, if i see another alien melt an outerwall, I report that cause greytide is not cool. If a xenomorph takes damage from vacuum what stops marines from simply removing all air in a room and reverse greytiding the ship to kill off aliens and/or just completely prevent any further advance into marine territory.

There's a really good reason in fact. This is more so right now heavily exploitable by aliens. Here's why:

I saw aliens make an invincible FOB in the hangar by opening shutters into a breached area which lead to well an invincible FOB. Marines can't go in and if they do, dead.
This is very exploitable in that aliens could just camp there with them growing stronger while aliens do nothing. This is what's happening right now. Like I said, they're still resistant, so they can easily traverse space within short periods of time.

The breach rules apply to both. And it's still worst for marines. A punctured lung is way worse than taking a bit of damage that can heal up later with weeds. Also I said space, it's not just air, it's also pressure.

[genjufens]

ah, meant to put for breaching that you either walk out and cant get back, or an explosion occurs or someone melts something they shouldn't, in which case it should be reported, but I don't think it's something that should change the dynamic where marines start looking at changing atmospheres in areas in an attempt to weaken or outright stop their opponent in a way that the aliens would be completely not allowed to alter at all, much less in their favor. and as for the situation you describe, put on a space suit or the pressure suit in tcoms on ship. marines are fully capable of working and even fighting in vacuum, just slower. Aliens have no way though to fill an area back up with air after it's been vented. so this would simply change who is using the exploits. Thats all I see it as. Currently those that greytide get reported and eventually jobbanned from what i understand.

[TeDGamer]

ah, meant to put for breaching that you either walk out and cant get back, or an explosion occurs or someone melts something they shouldn't, in which case it should be reported, but I don't think it's something that should change the dynamic where marines start looking at changing atmospheres in areas in an attempt to weaken or outright stop their opponent in a way that the aliens would be completely not allowed to alter at all, much less in their favor. and as for the situation you describe, put on a space suit or the pressure suit in tcoms on ship. marines are fully capable of working and even fighting in vacuum, just slower. Aliens have no way though to fill an area back up with air after it's been vented. so this would simply change who is using the exploits. Thats all I see it as. Currently those that greytide get reported and eventually jobbanned from what i understand.

Okay here's the thing. Why would you vent the area? That makes no rp sense since you don't know that space affects the alien. This can lead to bans for metagaming. Also you're going to fuck up the area for marines as well.

Not really changing who uses the exploit. Because with a space suit, it doesn't protect you against facehuggers.
First, because like I said, there's no reason to change the atmos without metagaming.

Second, it should be reported just like aliens breaching. Once aliens breach, they are simply warned and the breach is fixed but not atmos. This is heavily exploitable by aliens currently, especially with the greytide at the moment.

Let me ask, who can change atmos? Only engineers. For aliens, you have a whole caste of aliens that can breach (and will because they can) and it only leads to invincible FOBs since facehuggers can rip that space helmet off oyu and kill you easily.

[genjufens]

Well I can't speak for any staff members, since I'm not one. Every time I see something that needs staff attention, I report it, but what they do with it is up them and whatever rules they are governed by. But as I see it, spending time changing code in a game to switch an issue from one player group to another doesn't actually resolve the issue and is therefore a waste of time re-coding your project. At no point can any xenomorph caste alter atmos except by melting something which gets logged now according to update notes a few updates ago. A human player through rp does not have to be an engineer to necessarily solve an engineering problem on this server given a complete lack of alternatives. They are still able to utilize the right tools to fix the job and all of these tools are all on the ship and can be ordered or can be manufactured. since your wearing internals in a pressure-less environment, it's gonna take at least two facehuggers by the way and that's per human player and assuming the human players aren't going to start shooting like mad and throwing as many grenades as they can. So changing this means adding in new functionality regarding that because there would be an rp reason for marines to notice a bunch of aliens dieing from the venting room they accidentally blew open. Suddenly they notice, "holy crap, the aliens have issues with pressure, lets test that." that's all it takes.

Honestly I think the idea is good, we need to end the breaching and I also have issues with the lack of punishment of xenomorphs that do it, but i think we need a different solution.

[genjufens]

Marines just blew open engineering lower floor cause they shot at in the room so much the windows blew....lost atmos with a room full of aliens....This is the perfect RP reason to notice aliens performing weaker and I just wanted to point out how easily it would be to RP take advantage of this. As it stands an alien has a log of everything they melt and its pretty final that they melted something. How final would it be to report marines noticing the aliens frantically retreating from vacuum and take advantage of that. I feel like the marines in that instance have a grey area where that may be allowed. but the alien flat out made a mistake if the melt a wall.

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

+1

Will have to give this my support, aliens shouldn't be able to simply "Survive" in a vacuum indefinitely due to Lore, Gameplay and Logistics reasons.

Lets use a health % based drain every second to keep this even for all aliens, they should still be able to lap around the ship at least once before succumbing to crit.

[TeDGamer]

I hope this isn't hard to do.

Even though when the SM explodes it's the engineers fault,it shouldn't allow aliens to simply use the spaced, phoroned areas that marines are unable to access. This just leads to the game where the aliens will slowly make the atmos worst on the ship as they open shutters and airlocks.

To stop marines from exploiting this in engineering, just make the windows into the hull instead. That should fix worries that marines accidentally breach.

[Toroic]

If you make xenos weak to vacuum, marines are going to exploit it. Xenos already have huge issues with vacuum areas because they cannot keep hosts alive in a vacuum, and that has made marine-breached prison games awful for both sides. Marines can be cloned indefinitely, xenos need hosts.

-1. Breaching shouldn't be done by either side, and admins often fix breaches before they get too bad. Marines can fix this, xenos cannot, and on the ship a marine mistake shouldn't punish xenos.

[Steelpoint]

Overall I think breaching should be impossible.

If we were on /tg/ code or similar where breaching was deadly but not a instant ggnore I would not mind but on this code breaches can be instantly lethal.