Buff Sentinels

[Surrealistik]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Per subject.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Gives easily the worst T1 caste badly needed buffs so it's no longer easily the worst T1 caste, particular after Upgrade scaling. Important as players can easily end up locked in T1 castes for the entire game now.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

* Give Sentinels access to Acid Spit (critical tool for spitter castes).
* Significantly increase Sentinel plasma regeneration rate and storage with Upgrades.
* Significantly decrease Sentinel spit cooldowns with Upgrades.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Minor coding changes/copy pasta (Apop has said that giving Sentinels acid spit may be somewhat messy however).

[Egorkor]

no. you want all that, you be a spitter or upgrade.

[Surrealistik]

no. you want all that, you be a spitter or upgrade.

Except you can't because of the T upgrades being limited.

I don't think you understand how utterly gimp Ancient Sentinel is vis a vis an Ancient Runner.

[MauroVega]

why are you calling it the weakest T1,a drone would be weaker to kill,also sents should not have acid spit,as Egorkor mentioned they can upgrade to get more plasma along with spit ROF

[Surrealistik]

why are you calling it the weakest T1,a drone would be weaker to kill,also sents should not have acid spit,as Egorkor mentioned they can upgrade to get more plasma along with spit ROF

Upgrades do _not_ increase spit ROF so far as I can tell, and the plasma regen rate upgrade is pitiful.

Again, Ancient Sentinels are shit vs Ancient Runners.


Drones remain more useful overall due to having Corrosive Acid, better plasma regen, and structure building.

[MauroVega]

When you say "weaker" do you mean combat or generally being good for the hive

they do,when you get to ancient you can fire per second if i recall

[Surrealistik]

When you say "weaker" do you mean combat or generally being good for the hive

they do,when you get to ancient you can fire per second if i recall

I got up to Elite, and the spit rate was definitely still slower than a basic spitter or prae's. Even if it's not though, your plasma pool and regen are so awful that your effective sustained fire rate is shit tier, and you're still shit next to an Ancient Runner.

Maybe there's some massive backloaded bonus to fire rate at Ancient; if there is, it should probably be more evenly spread out.

[MauroVega]

oh yes,there is a massive backload for ancients and no man,its for ancients it should not be spread out

[Surrealistik]

oh yes,there is a massive backload for ancients and no man,its for ancients it should not be spread out

So what you're saying is that Sentinels should be totally gimp up until Ancient tier where they're just kinda gimped. Meanwhile the Ancient Runner is situationally better than his T2 and T3 evolutions, and is straight up better than the Ancient Sentinel.

[Egorkor]

Except you can't because of the T upgrades being limited.

I don't think you understand how utterly gimp Ancient Sentinel is vis a vis an Ancient Runner.

except you can, every round I play in as an alien I see at least 4 spitters not counting the upgraded ones, plus sentinels spitspam as is and deal a lot of toxins, too.
if anything, drone is the weakest caste.
still no.

[MauroVega]

No but ancient,is ancient,it should not be spread out,mature and elite still exist,but the "ancient" should not be spread,why would it be there if the bonus would be spread out

[Surrealistik]

@ Egorkor: The fact is that if you're a mid-late joiner alienside, you have an excellent chance of being locked into T1 for the rest of the game; that is the harsh reality of the current evolution system.

Second, no, Drone is far from the weakest caste given its versatility and utility; anyone who would argue otherwise clearly doesn't understand what a macroed Drone can do, and how it can act as a force multiplier; you're basically trading neurotoxin for the ability to make any resin construct, a higher plasma capacity and regen rate; that's a very easy decision. If you have to be locked into a T1, Drone would be an easy second choice (or even a first choice depending on the circumstances/hive composition) behind the Runner.


@ MauroVega: Either the backloaded benefit has to be spread out among the tiers, OR the earlier tiers just have to be straight up buffed. Honestly, given that the Ancient Sentinel doesn't really compare to the Ancient Runner, the latter is probably the only real solution. Bottomline, Sentinel needs help with the Runner as gold standard.

[MauroVega]

Forgot to put in my first post -1

[oprayx73]

lolooolo holy crap you're insane. Sentinels are EASILY the most useful, from nest defense, poisoning marines with spitspam, to being absolute spitspam masters.
Sentinels are INCREDIBLY strong with aging, and their evolution castes are great aswell.
Sentinels are godlike, stop trying to push your xeno agenda this badly. -1

[Surrealistik]

lolooolo holy crap you're insane. Sentinels are EASILY the most useful, from nest defense, poisoning marines with spitspam, to being absolute spitspam masters.
Sentinels are INCREDIBLY strong with aging, and their evolution castes are great aswell.
Sentinels are godlike, stop trying to push your xeno agenda this badly. -1

So what you're actually saying is that you've never played a Sentinel.

At the very least you've never played a Sentinel vs a Runner.

[Egorkor]

@ Egorkor: The fact is that if you're a mid-late joiner alienside, you have an excellent chance of being locked into T1 for the rest of the game; that is the harsh reality of the current evolution system.

Second, no, Drone is far from the weakest caste given its versatility and utility; anyone who would argue otherwise clearly doesn't understand what a macroed Drone can do, and how it can act as a force multiplier; you're basically trading neurotoxin for the ability to make any resin construct, a higher plasma capacity and regen rate; that's a very easy decision. If you have to be locked into a T1, Drone would be an easy second choice (or even a first choice depending on the circumstances/hive composition) behind the Runner.


@ MauroVega: Either the backloaded benefit has to be spread out among the tiers, OR the earlier tiers just have to be straight up buffed. Honestly, given that the Ancient Sentinel doesn't really compare to the Ancient Runner, the latter is probably the only real solution. Bottomline, Sentinel needs help with the Runner as gold standard.

then it's tough luck for you. using macros for everything is bullshite to me, something useful like shotguns I can understand, but not literally everything because it's dickish and abusive to do. that being said, any macroed caste can do a lot, sentinels too.

[Surrealistik]

How do macros help the Sentinels in particular? They can't even swap spit types.

[Steelpoint]

I do think both Drones and Sentinals are both the worst Aliens to be stuck on as both are 100% surpassed by their respective T2 counterpart, the Hivelord and Spitter respectively.

The Runner on the other hand is a viable Alien to upgrade and has a few advantages over the T2 Hunter.

I'm not saying the Sentinal needs to be more like the Spitter but I do think the Sentinal should have some kind of unique edge it has to make taking it over a Spitter if need be to be viable.

[carlarc]

Drone is faster than the hivelord. Sure, it has Resin Walker, but that only counts for already weeded areas. It's better at making 'alien fobs'. Meanwhile the spitter is just a straight, boring, stats upgrade.

[Toroic]

then it's tough luck for you. using macros for everything is bullshite to me, something useful like shotguns I can understand, but not literally everything because it's dickish and abusive to do. that being said, any macroed caste can do a lot, sentinels too.

This position is pretty confusing, as:

1) xenos rely heavily on verbs for their basic functions, particularly queens, drones, hivelord, spitter/prae, and crushers.

2) if shotguns aren't abusive because it's "something useful" why is use of macros dickish and abusive?

Literally everyone can use macros, and especially for things like crusher stomp, timing is important which is why I use shift + R for both queen screech and crusher stomp.

Building isn't really faster with macros outside of combat (as you're limited by plasma more than anything) but it's a hell of a lot less tedious.

[TeDGamer]

-1

Sentinels are perfect for their job of guarding the hive. They really shouldn't be going into combat unless they're a runner caste or drone caste (drones need to weed up).

Spitters and after evolutions are fine going into combat, but Sentinels are perfect for their role of protecting the nests. Sure it's boring and someone's gotta do it.

Acid spit can just put nested people into critical and then they have absolutely no chance of breaking out. Also why would you ever harm your host?

Not sure how much is significant increase or decrease but those could void spitters (as young) usefulness. Here's why, young T2s have more potential and are technically greater than ancient T1s. Similar to how ravager is supposedly better than ancient hutners when it comes to damage. I'm not sure if significant would be good or not because spitters usefulness comes from it's machine-gun spit.

[Surrealistik]

-1

Sentinels are perfect for their job of guarding the hive. They really shouldn't be going into combat unless they're a runner caste or drone caste (drones need to weed up).

Spitters and after evolutions are fine going into combat, but Sentinels are perfect for their role of protecting the nests. Sure it's boring and someone's gotta do it.

Sentinels actually aren't great at this because they have both a slow fire speed, limited capacity and an terrible plasma regen rate.

A good Runner is arguably better on defense than a Sentinel. Later on, Ancient Runners put them to shame and are useful in pretty much every circumstance; that's a problem.

Acid spit can just put nested people into critical and then they have absolutely no chance of breaking out. Also why would you ever harm your host?

Nested people don't have a chance to escape anyways.

Not sure how much is significant increase or decrease but those could void spitters (as young) usefulness. Here's why, young T2s have more potential and are technically greater than ancient T1s. Similar to how ravager is supposedly better than ancient hutners when it comes to damage. I'm not sure if significant would be good or not because spitters usefulness comes from it's machine-gun spit.

Ancient Runner is easily >>>> Young Hunter. It's not even close.

One of the major problems with the Ancient Sentinel is that it is utter shit compared to the Ancient Runner.

[TeDGamer]

Sentinels actually aren't great at this because they have both a slow fire speed, limited capacity and an terrible plasma regen rate.

A good Runner is arguably better on defense than a Sentinel. Later on, Ancient Runners put them to shame and are useful in pretty much every circumstance; that's a problem.
Nested people don't have a chance to escape anyways.
Ancient Runner is easily >>>> Young Hunter. It's not even close.

One of the major problems with the Ancient Sentinel is that it is utter shit compared to the Ancient Runner.

I do agree that they have a terrible plasma regen. That should go up. Slow fire speed is fine, makes sense to become a spitter for faster fire speed.

RUnners have a pretty ggood stun with the pounce, but their plasma capacity is weaksauce. No idea what their plasma regen is when they're ancient, but I hope it's not that good or they can pounce infinitely.

At the same time, young hunter has more potential (since they can upgrade to be so much better)

As a sentinel, I've always just waited for a slot to open up because spitters with machine gun is amazing.

Though it's similar to the feeling of playing a drone, waiting for a spot to open because your plasma regen is low or you like throwing huggers.

Maybe they do need a buff, but it has to make it so spitters are still relevant.

[Toroic]

+1, now that people are stuck as t1 they should be fun to play and strong when upgraded.

[Surrealistik]

I do agree that they have a terrible plasma regen. That should go up. Slow fire speed is fine, makes sense to become a spitter for faster fire speed.

RUnners have a pretty ggood stun with the pounce, but their plasma capacity is weaksauce. No idea what their plasma regen is when they're ancient, but I hope it's not that good or they can pounce infinitely.

At the same time, young hunter has more potential (since they can upgrade to be so much better)

As a sentinel, I've always just waited for a slot to open up because spitters with machine gun is amazing.

Though it's similar to the feeling of playing a drone, waiting for a spot to open because your plasma regen is low or you like throwing huggers.

Maybe they do need a buff, but it has to make it so spitters are still relevant.

Spitters would remain relevant because they're still _better_ than fully upgraded Sentinels when they're fully upgraded.