Guns Blazing

[CampinKiller]

Okay, so this is a question borne from a situation that occurred a few minutes ago.

Are Marines allowed to go in guns blazing and murder and pillage everything they see? Because the situation was I was an alien drone, building some doors near Arrivals. Shuttle arrives, I hang around to Rp-out the first contact (my mistake, I guess), and four marines immediately decide to open fire, damn the consequences. (It should be noted I never moved towards them, and in fact ran away when they started shooting, which was immediately upon exiting the shuttle). I was under the impression that Marines can't go in shooting the aliens unless the aliens are clearly hostile towards them (it would be meta to just open fire), but according to a moderator, that's not the case anymore. So...what is it?

To me, at least, it wouldn't make sense to open fire immediately, because they're supposed to be a trained military force with discipline. I could see them aiming weapons at an alien on first contact, but unless I rush them or throw huggers, it makes no Rp sense to go in firing. (Note: One of the reasons I was told it's not meta is because there was a distress signal. But the thing is, nobody knows if the distress if for a pirate attack, a massive fire, or any other possibility. It's just a signal).

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

There's been some discussion about this for a while. In my personal opinion, it's not very logical for the marines to perceive an adult Xenomorph as a non-hostile being. They're large, scary and covered in teeth and spikes. It's hard to believe they're anything but hostile. Were you an alien larvae, I would be more likely to agree with you.

Seeing any adult alien should give any logical human being an idea why the beacon was sent out in the first place. It would be like getting a 911 call from a house as a police officer and arriving to see a tiger covered in blood.


Similarly, in my opinion, it would be silly for an alien to seek peaceful contact with humans. They see humans as nothing more than prey. It would never happen in the films, as the aliens would never even consider it in the first place.

[medivh0]

Not so long ago I got bashed for killing Alien Queen (newbie, didn't make a nest) without getting orders. She didn't attack me, but she DID walk up right to me, so I think it was normal reaction to "panic" and start fire toward such creature and don't really stop until you run out of ammo even if it start to go back.

Pretty sure the only reason I wasn't attacked was cause it was newbie and didn't change his intent prefrence.

But in after match chat they still went full in on me, cause I shouldn't kill Queen cause "metagaming" lol. The point is - now it's ok to kill alien who don't even come close to you(Can't count how many times first encounter end up with Marines open fire right on sight). Players logic.

[Newnermul123]

If you ask me the marines should only open fire on the Aliens in these situations

1 the alien moves dangerously close,
2 the alien throws something
3 the alien attacks
4 the commander ordered it
5 its a facehugger

The aliens were never spotted before Which makes them generally Good research, Frankly if I were centcom I would order the Marines to Kill only when Necessary and try to Capture a Live specimen. It is also Technically illegal to shoot upon a alien without it attacking the marines in the first place,

also its horrible RP to shoot crap 4norasins.

[UnknownMurder]

Commander needs a reason to shoot the aliens..

[Minimike]

I'm gonna have to be on Joshuu's side here. Rp wise, if you were a marine, you got called to check out a station, and you see a giant super scary uber creature, chances are you would run and or shoot.

[TheTylerLee]

If i'm ever walking on a deserted space station and i see a massive black scary thing, I'm going to shoot the shit out of it.


However this is a RP server, You need to atleast say "What the fuck is that thing?!" first.

[Rovernic]

/me breaths in
/me breaths out
/me breaths in

Too much?

/me insults alien's mother
/me pew pew
/me 360 noscope.

Too little?

[CampinKiller]

So...division. Poo. I guess it would be enforced differently, though that would be frustrating...

-snip-

While I understand what you mean, the Military IRL has rules of engagement, usually along the lines of "don't fire unless fired upon." Yes, the CM's have been in the shit before, but the point still is, they are members of a professional standing army. Unless they've already been engaged with the hostile contact, they wouldn't go in and open fire unless they've all had mental breakdowns. Yes, the Marines can obviously make an educated guess as to why the beacon was sent out once they see it, but logically and Rp-wise I don't believe they should escalate straight to deadly force, and damn the consequences, because they would realistically have rules of engagement. But that's just me.

[UnknownMurder]

It's hard to enforce. I wish we can make a huge step/movement to make the players stop randomly shooting at aliens on first encounter.

[apophis775]

Our Military ROE does NOT cover aliens.

Here's a sample ROE for the Army:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9/Appb.htm

But yea, I was in the military, and if I saw a big fucking giant black monster, I'd probably shoot the everloving shit out of it.

[razerwing]

-snip-

Aliens are also seen as somewhat intelligent. As far as I know, every instance, in games or movies, the Humans always stumbled on an Alien Hive that had been there for a while. There are hundreds, thousands, hordes of them already waiting and dormant. They have no need to seek peaceful contact with humans because they aren't outnumbered, out skilled, and in immediate threat of extinction.

On the server however, you start off with two aliens. Two. And you have to hope and pray you got some newbie marines or some ghosts, because otherwise you will start off first contact with two aliens. I'd like to think that a species that values survival of the Hive above all else would get resourceful if the odds were against them.

Our Military ROE does NOT cover aliens.

Here's a sample ROE for the Army:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9/Appb.htm

But yea, I was in the military, and if I saw a big fucking giant black monster, I'd probably shoot the everloving shit out of it.

I'm not in the military just yet, so I concede this. However, I'd like to offer that this is the current military RoE. If we met hostile life on another planet, or hell, life like ours on another world, I'm sure that the rules would change. Maybe not a whole lot, but it would definitely change.

Also, big fucking giant black monster... Sounds like a Queen or a higher caste, and hell yeah, if that thing walked up to me there's no trying to figure out if it's hostile or not. Either it dies or I do. But a drone is only 7-8 feet tall. Two or so feet makes a difference, but you can't tell me that the CMC, which is now Earth's main force for attacking from space, has never seen a peaceful, intelligent species that is bigger than them. Hell, Avatar had ten-foot tall, blue aliens with spears and dragons! Still, the humans made an attempt to at least communicate with them, even if it was a sheltered ordeal that later turned into a murder-fest.

[speedybst]

I will point out that within the novels, there has been some neutral, if not down right peaceful contact with isolated hives of the xenomorphs and groups of humans, so its not impossible for it to happen. IDK, most of you seem willing to ignore the expanded universe. (at least it doesn't have alien: resurrection within it...)

[Newnermul123]

Sauce? i wanna read those novels

[Void00]

Our Military ROE does NOT cover aliens.

Here's a sample ROE for the Army:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9/Appb.htm

But yea, I was in the military, and if I saw a big fucking giant black monster, I'd probably shoot the everloving shit out of it.

Well , pretty sure no army in the world have yet encountered a Xenomorph and have any Rule Of Engagement over those.

I can assure you , that if when i'm in the army ill encounter a xenomorph , i will probably shoot it on sight ...
(so , let's hope there is no Xeno invasion in the arch of the next 5 months.)

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

Aliens are also seen as somewhat intelligent. As far as I know, every instance, in games or movies, the Humans always stumbled on an Alien Hive that had been there for a while. There are hundreds, thousands, hordes of them already waiting and dormant. They have no need to seek peaceful contact with humans because they aren't outnumbered, out skilled, and in immediate threat of extinction.

On the server however, you start off with two aliens. Two. And you have to hope and pray you got some newbie marines or some ghosts, because otherwise you will start off first contact with two aliens. I'd like to think that a species that values survival of the Hive above all else would get resourceful if the odds were against them.

Aliens are intelligent in an animal sense, not a human sense. An intelligent human would seek diplomacy in a bad situation, while an intelligent animal would try and approach the situation from a different perspective. Instead of attacking humans in the open, they'd look to drag off stragglers. They'd be a lot more stealthy and utilize their abilities to see through walls and in the dark to their advantage.

I think it is extremely clear that aliens do not think at all on the same level as humans. Aliens are not sentient. They do not respond to reason. They are, from the canon, just extremely powerful and clever animals.

I'm not in the military just yet, so I concede this. However, I'd like to offer that this is the current military RoE. If we met hostile life on another planet, or hell, life like ours on another world, I'm sure that the rules would change. Maybe not a whole lot, but it would definitely change.

Also, big fucking giant black monster... Sounds like a Queen or a higher caste, and hell yeah, if that thing walked up to me there's no trying to figure out if it's hostile or not. Either it dies or I do. But a drone is only 7-8 feet tall. Two or so feet makes a difference, but you can't tell me that the CMC, which is now Earth's main force for attacking from space, has never seen a peaceful, intelligent species that is bigger than them. Hell, Avatar had ten-foot tall, blue aliens with spears and dragons! Still, the humans made an attempt to at least communicate with them, even if it was a sheltered ordeal that later turned into a murder-fest.

The aliens from Avatar are completely and utter incomparable to Xenomorphs. The Navi from Avatar show evidence of a culture, utilize tools, wear clothes, form families and have a spoken language. Although they are much larger than a human being, they are instantly recognizable as a cultured, intelligent, sentient species.

Xenomorphs, on the other hand, show no evidence of any of that. Any reasonable being can tell they are nothing more than a feral creature from looks alone. They carry no tools, have no language, wear no clothes, have no culture, nothing. It's instantly clear that they are a species with no purpose beyond killing.

[HyperPwner]

If you ask me the marines should only open fire on the Aliens in these situations

1 the alien moves dangerously close,
2 the alien throws something
3 the alien attacks
4 the commander ordered it
5 its a facehugger

The aliens were never spotted before Which makes them generally Good research, Frankly if I were centcom I would order the Marines to Kill only when Necessary and try to Capture a Live specimen. It is also Technically illegal to shoot upon a alien without it attacking the marines in the first place,

also its horrible RP to shoot crap 4norasins.

CentCom is not in CM!

[Void00]

CentCom is not in CM!

Nanotrasen Central Command is in Colonial Marines.

We staff , give instructions as Central Command.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

Nanotrasen Central Command is in Colonial Marines.

We staff , give instructions as Central Command.

I always figured that CentCom in Colonial Marines was meant to represent the USCM Central Command instead of Nanotrasen Central Command.

[speedybst]

SecretStamos, the xenomorphs are quite a bit more than intelligent animals within the canon. Within the last three novels i've read, all of which are considered full canon, they have been taught to use modified firearms, negotiated a minor peaceful situation, fly a small shuttle for a short distance and melt down the power unit of a plasma cannon to disable it.

They are quite a bit smarter than you believe. It all comes down to the size of the hive, as they are able to grow more intelligent the more there are in psychic link with the queen/empress.

[razerwing]

Where can I get the books, and why the hell are they using weapons at all? Damn you Weyland-Yutani!

[HighwaterOffical]

The people that disagree with this make the argument that this is a RP server, and you are required to RP situations involving a unknown, possibly hostile subject, to the point were you don't, as soon as you see it, mow it down with whatever weapon you have on you. RP wise, looking at the situation as if it was real life, if any sane human being (Marines go through physiological testing before they are sent on any active duty operations) were to see a 7 foot tall, 400+ pound (Talking about DRONES here) black, alien, with teeth as long as their fingers, actually making eye contact (Aliens don't have eyes, but you get the point) And the marine had a gun? He would immediately do everything in his power, to render the presumed HOSTILE alien completely, and absolutely, no longer a threat. This doesn't really need to be debated, as this is a RP sever, and RP wise, You would shoot the big, black, scary, tall, 8 inch teeth, 12 inch claw wielding, alien.

[speedybst]

for the books, search up steve perry's aliens series, he was the author of most of the good ones. most of them were written shortly after the 2nd film, so they are harder to get hard-copy, eBooks are easier to get.

As for the xenos with guns, mad general thought that he would use xenos as soldiers to recapture earth from the xenos, ended up getting killed as soon as he arrived, by his own "troops".

[razerwing]

Did some research into the extended universe and I found the gun-Xenos. Apparently they were called 'White Hybrids', capable of communication with humans, higher-level thinking, and the ability to use captured/stolen/modified fire-arms.

Also, there was a Xenomorph 'King', created by none other than our wonderful friends at Weyland-Yutani. Operated at a lower level of intelligence than the original Queen and was later killed by the Queen he was created to destroy.

Also, the Red Queen, a different strain of Xenomorph. Probably the only evidence we've had so far that the Xenomorph isn't a perfect unity as we previously thought. Marines came in, and were caught in the middle of a war between the Original Queen and the Red Queen's hives. Definitely gave a whole 'Blood for the Blood Queen' vibe to the Red Hive, hurr hurr.

[speedybst]

hmm, the ones i was refering to were the ones from novel "Aliens: Nightmare Asylum", where general Spears taught them to use firearms, but the White Hybrids offer a good explaination for friendly encounters, or a new caste i suppose...