Fewah

[RoswellRay]

Your Byond Key:Chris1464

Your Character Name: Roswell Ray

Their Byond key: Fewah

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results):3:10 est

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: Enforcement of the rules ( Ensure that all incidents are adequately investigated before giving a ruling. ), Remain Professional, no matter what happens (See how little attempt to interact with me,the insulting way the ban was written.)

Description of the incident: After we were evacuated from the planet we recieved a message from Central stating that the aliens here would kill everyone in the sector if we failed our mission. A few of us naturally got upset at the CL and his company for getting so many of us killed and essentially dooming the sector. So we roughed him up some,bare fists nothing serious and let him run. We then flipped some tables in his office in protest. He came back with a shotgun and aimed it the other marine with me using the inbuilt aim system. I aimed at him and told him to drop the weapon, he moved I guess ((EDIT: He fired his weapon according to the logs)) which caused a reflex fire ((all of this well within the rules of escalation)) . I then tried to get him to a doctor as you can see in the text logs at which time fewah contacted. Fewah made little attempt to understand the situation and banned me around a minute after the initial message. It felt like he did VERY little research into what actually was happening. I was given a 24 hour ban.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): http://pastebin.com/PdsW3mNg

How you would punish the accused: Up to you,I realise he's busy but the man seems to quick to deal out punishment without taking the time to properly discuss or investigate it.

[Feweh]

I did research the situation at hand, in fact you punched the CL about 10 times BEFORE the CL even reacted with lethals. Take in mind, this was WHILE he was running away and not standing still. I OBSERVED you chase the CL around the Hangar for a solid minute as he attempted to avoid you, yet you continued your pursuit and you even said this WHILE chasing the CL //Roswell Ray shouts, "Fight back!"//. You shouldn't of been doing what you did and rightfully so you were banned for your actions.
Something important to understand is that you cannot "attack" other players just because you feel like your ROLEPLAY is justified. Intentionally harming/killing fellow players for "RP" reasons is FAIL RP. If the other player isn't enjoying or benefiting from the Role-play to some degree it is one side RP, which is why you often gets excuses of "I was RPing so it's cool to kill him".


////Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: Enforcement of the rules ( Ensure that all incidents are adequately investigated before giving a ruling. ), Remain Professional, no matter what happens (See how little attempt to interact with me,the insulting way the ban was written.)////

You Staff complaint is invalid, as I was professional and didn't insult or get angry with you at all.
By the time I contacted you I had already figured out what transpired and was hoping you had a good reason for doing so.

Now moving on, this is the definition of a SALTY Staff Report.
You couldn't make a ban appeal so you made a complaint. The following will occur given the fact that there is 0 basis for your staff complaint.

5. Intentionally False complaints (as in, complaints with no evidence, complaints that are lies, or complaints made to try and witchhunt) against players or admins will result in a 1 week server ban, and 3 day forum ban. Complaints can take 30 minutes to several HOURS to investigate, and if you provide literally 0 evidence other than "WELL THIS HAPPENED" it takes even longer. So complaints that are determined "intentionally false" in the end, will receive a short forum ban.

As this report is about be I cannot administer this punishment, however this will most likely be the outcome once higher staff are alerted.

[RoswellRay]

First off the total punch count was five,note form the logs that he struck back twice (feel free to read the logs). A fight lasting one minute in a crowded room isn't terribly long. Secondly I talked to him before and after the fighting after the short fight I yelled at him to fight back, when he didn't I stopped chasing him. I roughed up his office a little and scattered some papers, might seem a bit silly but Ray did just watch most of his friends die.

As for your claim of making a staff complain in place of a ban appeal as someone who has a pretty decent record in the last year, I feel like these 24 hour bans are a way for admins to avoid responsibilty,they can give them out freely but no one can appeal them and if they make a staff complaint they face yet harsher punishment.

[Feweh]

As for your claim of making a staff complain in place of a ban appeal as someone who has a pretty decent record in the last year, I feel like these 24 hour bans are a way for admins to avoid responsibilty,they can give them out freely but no one can appeal them and if they make a staff complaint they face yet harsher punishment.

No, it's your first real offense so we follow a general standard Warning/24hours/72hours/7day ban cycle. (generally).

[RoswellRay]

The fight in question, note that the accusations of striking the CL ten times before he could react are an unfounded exageration and he was infact striking back.

http://pastebin.com/B2W1EDEb

[TR-BlackDragon]

I'll be looking into this.

[apophis775]

I'm going to look into this as well.

It seems a bit of a "drumhead" trial happened here, and I do not think this is NOT an illegitimate or false complaint that would full under provision 5 of the 2016 greytide announcement.

[apophis775]

Ok, I discussed this with Feweh, looked at the logs, and examined everything. I came to the following conclusion:


1. "It's your fault *PUNCH*" is not the "best" RP. however, it is not a violation of any rules. Fistfights are allowed so long as they aren't "to death" or excessive (such as, starting a billion fights across the ship constantly)
2. The CL DID punch back, meaning they were consenting to the fist-fight. Yes, they ran away, but I really think if they were non-consenting, they would have ahelped and not fought back (or at least, ahelped when they escaped).
3. The CL was the one to instigate the escallation to lethals. As Rosewell started it, and the CL escallated it, even though it resulted in a death, there was NO breach of rules (This fell under, Marine Rule 1. Lethal Force).
4. This was HILARIOUSLY against Marine-law, however, that is not for admins to enforce. While since it resulted in a death, a MOTHER announcement would be a good idea, it's not admins jobs to enforce Marines-Law (with the exception of ID related things, due to bugs we are fixing).
5. No one Ahelped about any part of the situation, meaning that no-one felt as though their round was being ruined or they were being griefed. Also, I do not believe that there was an intent to grief or cause a round to be ruined.


Final Ruling:

There were no rules broken, and this was an IC issue.

I talked with Feweh about this for about an hour, and he understands what was wrong with this and why it should have been allowed. Situations like this have come up a few times with the "Lethal Force" rule before. It's a bit of a slippery slope, because sometimes it seems like grief when it isn't. He jumped the gun a bit, and tried to prevent grief. I don't think he was intending to be abusive or oppresive when he banned you, but was looking out for the well-being of the CL. As such, other than our talk about how Lethal Force works and expanding what is/isn't allowed, no action is being taken.

I will remove the associated notes and ban.


Additionally, for the record: The reason we have the 'don't appeal 24-hour bans' thing, is because over the summer we are getting a LOT of ban appeals and investigation reports and it takes a minimum of 48 hours to investigate, so typically the ban is long expired before we can look into it.