HOW would you like the game to be balanced?

DoctorMad · Post by **DoctorMad** » 09 Jul 2016, 05:44

Okay so I read up on the Stickied thread by Aphopis and it answers things a little, but the question I have still remains: HOW do you want the game to be balanced like?
This doesn't explain much so I'll try to explain what I mean in the next few sentences, lemme see...

The question basically means, what do you want the aliens to keep, the marines, to keep, and what is acceptable for factions to win?
For example, it seemed like Marines should have some trouble escaping Xeno nests. You buffed spit stun time against infected marines even though xenos had a much higher win rate at the time once, and added handcuffs for xenos because you wanted marines to have more trouble escaping, even though one of those decisions were made during a time which aliens had a much higher win rate than marines. This was because you wanted escaping to be harder for marines, not because you wanted aliens to win more at the time.
A more blatant example would be Marines having better ranged attacks. This was because Marines have, by design, better ranged capabilities.
So, tell me, how do you need the game "balanced"? What do you nerf/buff when you want the win rate to be balanced?

jaggaaff · Post by **jaggaaff** » 09 Jul 2016, 05:54

Way to balance the game: Get rid of the powergaming rule + rule .3 = GG

MrJJJ · Post by **MrJJJ** » 09 Jul 2016, 05:55

STUN.MUST.DIE

DoctorMad · Post by **DoctorMad** » 09 Jul 2016, 06:28

Am I really that bad at explaining things?

YouTube · Post by **Desolane900** » 09 Jul 2016, 09:03

Our great leader brought up the comparison between the server's gameplay and Aliens, the movie. But in the movie, the marines were outnumbered to such an extent that it was an uphill battle just to be alive.

To clarify: Yeah, a single xenomorph is a game changer no matter what and could easily drop 3 marines. But at the same time, one burst from an M41A is enough to blast a xenomorph to gibs. We can't have that and I do understand that xenos will always be outnumbered by marines.

I never really had a problem with balance on the server because it's fun to play either way for me, but it can get annoying when people try to compare the server to anything Scott Ridley made canon because the game is very noncanon.

I also understand that it was just a simple comparison with no actual intentions of "Well look, we're like the movie".

But both sides rip into each other like a .357 to paper in lore with either side having their own weaknesses and strengths they use to get around this. Some day I feel like CM could be this way but for now I'm okay with whatever way marines need to get shit on.

Bigchilly · Post by **Bigchilly** » 09 Jul 2016, 17:07

Nerf spitter classes back to normal, and destor- undo the upgrading system and instead make all xenos mature by default. Or make every gun like a smartgun and unable to shoot friendly marines, that would be a save saver.

Xurphorus · Post by **Xurphorus** » 09 Jul 2016, 17:14

I personally am fine with the balance as it is, the only problem I have is with the spitters being so OP. A group a spitters can easily take down even a seasoned predator. The fire rate which spitters have is staggering especially their corrosive spit.

lucashunter608 · Post by **lucashunter608** » 09 Jul 2016, 18:52

*spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* *spit* NO STOP PLEASE OH GOD

Bigchilly · Post by **Bigchilly** » 09 Jul 2016, 19:47

Dont forget about resin cuffs, dear lord.

KingKire · Post by **KingKire** » 09 Jul 2016, 22:00

The way i'd balance things:
1. Nested marines cannot escape unless they are unhooked by a friend:
If you are caught, thats it, your done. No need to hang onto that one desperate chance in your mind that you *MIGHT*(Maybe, slightly, oh so little snowballs chance in hell) get free. This eliminates a lot of player "pain". They no longer feel like they have to sit and stare at their character "escaping" for 5 ( it is 5) minutes. Its not fun to sit and stare at your character dying. You can now say, "I did all that i can, i dont have to worry about this guy any more" and ghost out of him. If you feel that there is a chance for marines to come and rescue you, you can sit and wait. There is no worse feeling then giving everyone the thought that they are a "snowflake" and ripping it out of them with the current nesting mechanics.
It will hurt marines, but its like a band-aid. you rip it off quickly and take out the mechanic and let that pain go.

2. Aliens evolve, Humans upgrade:
This is being worked on, but i really hope this is the direction colonial marines takes. I do like the alien evolution system, but marines right now lack any dependable way of countering late game xenos. Right now, aliens are balanced to be weak in the beginning to curve up into very powerful come late game. Marines are balanced to be Very powerful in the early game and incredibly weak in the late game. I think the marine power curve should be bumped up on the back end to weak/moderate.

3. Aliens should win most of the time:
I agree with Apop, this is a marine story, and the marine story needs challenges to overcome. Marines should very rarely have a curb stomp victory. On the back end though, Aliens need to be balanced appropriately so they do not curb stomp marines a majority of the time. It should be Alien curb stomps 10% of the time, Alien wins 55% of the time. marine wins 30% of the time, and a marine curb stomp 5% of the time. Marines on average should win about 1/3 of the games they fight in my opinion.

4. Keep the story going:
Even if it means curbstomping the marines, no one likes dull stories. Extended games should reach crescendos of sound. Camping in the Sulaco, aliens running through caves, etc. Nobody likes when the action burns out for too long of a period. Conflict needs to happen, even if one side needs to pay for it. Curbstomps should be rewarded when they RARELY happen. If the force is so overwhelming in the beginning, then that means the round needs to be restarted and we need to let it happen.

5. All players should feel that they contributed to the overall story in some way:
Supporting characters in these conflicting stories need to be respected somehow. Survivors, drones, MP's, Hivelords, etc. When the round is over, they should feel like they had a direct helping hand in someway on the ground. Players came to play a game and make a story. If they are not providing a "real" connection to the story, then we need to rewrite the role, or axe it out of the story.

This is all my opinion of course.

BalancedGeneral · Post by **BalancedGeneral** » 10 Jul 2016, 07:04

1: Turn off marine late joins after 10-15 minutes. This will shorten rounds and make attacking the ship less suicidal

2: Reduce the chance for helpful ERTs. I sure do love 5-10 more even well armed marines after clawing your way out of the shuttle-death-box

3: Secondary alien win condition, hold the planet. With marine late joins turned off this becomes viable. Also gets rid of the awful ship assault as being the only way to win as aliens.

4: Remove/Rework caste limits. I sure do love everyone going useless shit like boilers and praetors and on that note..

5: Make boilers not suck dick. Literally the worst t3 which now takes up a t3 slot. You could laugh at them before if someone picked them, but now anyone playing boiler hampers the xeno team. They really need to be buffed.

6: Reduce the amount of mines. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died.

Doing these might actually get the winrate above 20% for xenos!
Will update with more when I think of it.

MrJJJ · Post by **MrJJJ** » 10 Jul 2016, 07:24

BalancedGeneral wrote: 4: Remove/Rework caste limits. I sure do love everyone going useless shit like boilers and praetors and on that note..

5: Make boilers not suck dick. Literally the worst t3 which now takes up a t3 slot. You could laugh at them before if someone picked them, but now anyone playing boiler hampers the xeno team. They really need to be buffed.

6: Reduce the amount of mines. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died.

Doing these might actually get the winrate above 20% for xenos!
Will update with more when I think of it.

*facepalm*

DoctorMad · Post by **DoctorMad** » 10 Jul 2016, 07:38

R.I.P. thread.

BalancedGeneral wrote:Will update with more

Please don't

ExGame · Post by **ExGame** » 10 Jul 2016, 08:08

BalancedGeneral wrote:1: Turn off marine late joins after 10-15 minutes. This will shorten rounds and make attacking the ship less suicidal

2: Reduce the chance for helpful ERTs. I sure do love 5-10 more even well armed marines after clawing your way out of the shuttle-death-box

3: Secondary alien win condition, hold the planet. With marine late joins turned off this becomes viable. Also gets rid of the awful ship assault as being the only way to win as aliens.

4: Remove/Rework caste limits. I sure do love everyone going useless shit like boilers and praetors and on that note..

5: Make boilers not suck dick. Literally the worst t3 which now takes up a t3 slot. You could laugh at them before if someone picked them, but now anyone playing boiler hampers the xeno team. They really need to be buffed.

6: Reduce the amount of mines. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died. Young Runner has died.

Doing these might actually get the winrate above 20% for xenos!
Will update with more when I think of it.

I'm really not sure if this guy is trolling or is actually such a huge ignorant asshole.

Post by **Steelpoint** » 10 Jul 2016, 08:20

Marines should be a bit like the Humans in Natural Selection 2 in terms of upgrading.

I'm concerned any RnD update will just be crap RnD has to print off that'll be near impossible to issue to Marines en mass.

Also BalancedGeneral is insane and/or trolling.

Joe4444 · Post by **Joe4444** » 10 Jul 2016, 09:10

marines need a bigger chance to win late game and they also need a better chance at assaulting the caves.If they had a better chance at assaulting the caves then it would make marines want to press the attack more and not sit in the FOB for 2 fucking hours shooting the suicide runner that's turns up ever 5 or so minutes.How to do this I don't know...im sure the devs can think of some way though

P.S BalancedGeneral is just a troll,All you gotta do is look though his posts and you'll see why

Nyvrem · Post by **Nyvrem** » 10 Jul 2016, 13:53

My most fun rounds are those that feel like a genuine challenge, so of course, if such situations are most common I like the game the most.

Beyond that, remove the tactic of aliens using huggers to kill/stun because it is dumb, that is all.

Coldflame · Post by **Coldflame** » 10 Jul 2016, 16:42

Severely reduce xeno's effectiveness at range and buff them in melee; cut down on xeno ability to stun effectively. Giving marines the clear ranged advantage and xenos the clear melee advantage would make combat more dynamic and engaging.

Choose between nest escapes being impossible or possible- right now mechanics are in place to allow it, however resincuffs and critting marines just make being nested as a marine frustrating. Getting rid of the illusion marines will be able to escape would be the better option.

Give the marines objectives beyond the main one of winning- currently the xenos exponentially get stronger whilst the marines just stand in an FoB waiting for them to attack prematurely. Giving marines a reason to leave the base beyond scouting and the main attack would make things more interesting and enjoyable.

As far as winrates go- I agree with the logic behind a xeno bias, but currently the xenos hold the advantage in ways which make the game less fun for both sides.

Post by **Toroic** » 10 Jul 2016, 16:54

What I think a lot of people fail to understand is that xenos need to be /dominant/ in melee, and have the ability to disable marines for long enough to transport them to the nest.

Whether that is halloss strikes, strong tackles, hugger stuns, if a xeno gets in melee with a marine you will have lost. Any other method completely breaks the game for xenos.

MrJJJ · Post by **MrJJJ** » 10 Jul 2016, 16:57

Toroic wrote: Whether that is halloss strikes, strong tackles, hugger stuns, if a xeno gets in melee with a marine you will have lost. Any other method completely breaks the game for xenos.

Like the machette, b18 and riot shield...which as proven by a predator, can block quite a lot

Evan Stelf · Post by **Evan Stelf** » 10 Jul 2016, 21:15

Perhaps reduce the burn damage amount that spitters/sentinels/preatorians/boilers can do. While playing marine, I've have numerous occurrences where a spitter can two spit crit me, when they can shoot about 8-9 spits with full plasma. I don't know about how you guys feel about this but whenever I assault now a days, I have to find a medic every minute to treat my burn damage by them, or swallow pills of kelotane. Kind of sucks when you can get hit that easily from afar.

MrJJJ · Post by **MrJJJ** » 11 Jul 2016, 04:00

Evan Stelf wrote:Perhaps reduce the burn damage amount that spitters/sentinels/preatorians/boilers can do. While playing marine, I've have numerous occurrences where a spitter can two spit crit me, when they can shoot about 8-9 spits with full plasma. I don't know about how you guys feel about this but whenever I assault now a days, I have to find a medic every minute to treat my burn damage by them, or swallow pills of kelotane. Kind of sucks when you can get hit that easily from afar.

Gonna agree with you there, one spit put me into orange very fast despite it being barely 1/3th of my health...

tails11 · Post by **tails11** » 13 Jul 2016, 04:18

For marines it shouldn't be possible to friendlyfire each other. As i see 30%-50% of injuries coming from it. Or at least make decreased damage or evasion chance. And nerf spitting. As i see it aliens should be strong in melee, and marines in range. With spitting as it is now they op in melee and strong in range. Oh, and by spitting it is possible to permastun marine. What a fun mechanic, don't you think?
And allow webbing for engies and medics.

lucashunter608 · Post by **lucashunter608** » 19 Jul 2016, 18:57

What about apop makes an upgrade system with helmets and armors? maybe upgrade the helmet to resist more huggers or the armor to be more buffy, the upgrade system would be like, each hour the round goes you'll get one marine point, with this point you can either upgrade your helmet or armor, that would balance things up, since xenos can upgrade too

Post by **Toroic** » 19 Jul 2016, 19:05

lucashunter608 wrote:What about apop makes an upgrade system with helmets and armors? maybe upgrade the helmet to resist more huggers or the armor to be more buffy, the upgrade system would be like, each hour the round goes you'll get one marine point, with this point you can either upgrade your helmet or armor, that would balance things up, since xenos can upgrade too

This doesn't make any damn sense at all.

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