The feeling of hopelessness (could we fight this?)

[Renomaki]

You all probably been there at one point or another: You are a marine, eager for a brand new day of ass kicking adventure. You go down to the planet, skirmish with them xenos, and then... You get captured and forced into a nest with not a single hope of escape whatsoever.

You are placed in a maximum security cell of xeno craftsmanship, with an alien constantly watching you either from a short distance or right next to you, staring you down like a hawk. The moment you get out of the nest, he bitchslaps you right back in, forcing you to have to start all over again in horrible vain. And in the event that you DO manage to make it out before the xenos know.. What now?

You clearly are still going to be stuck in a cell, and chances are you have cuffs on you, meaning in the time it'll take to get those cuffs off to grab a knife or gun, they'll come in and smack you upside the head for daring to get away and put you back in your place. And even if that doesn't happen and you manage to escape your cell, chances are you won't get very far before you get tackled down (or even screamed at by the queen, who sometimes does waste a warcry to deal with a single infected marine) and dragged right back to your cell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Only then do you realize that the only way out of this hell is sweet, sweet death, but according to the rules, you have to have a worthy reason TO kill yourself. If you are aware of what happens to infected, then it is fairly logical that you'd want to avoid such a horrible fate and end it quick and painless with a bullet to the head. There could be other excuses for suicide [such as being in a state of HORRIFIC PAIN and wanting it to end], but if you can't find a good enough reason for suicide, then you are shit outta luck and have no choice but to sit there and wait for fate.

And even IF you have a good reason for suicide, chances are you have cuffs on and an alien watching you intently, which means your only way out is through the awkward process of hand chewing.. Which only works if you are near death to begin with, otherwise it is just a vain attempt to avoid the inevitable.

All this boils down into is a state of pure, concentrated hopelessness. your will to fight and survive completely and utterly gone. Nothing you do matters, and despite your attempts, them aliens are not going to let you choose how you want to die, but rather force your fate upon you with no way around it. You might as well ghost and let them have your body to burst from (since if I am correct, empty bodies still work as long as they are still alive and healthy), since the chances of being rescued are very slim in my experience.

My question now to all this is.. How do we provide more incentive to fight for freedom and give players a reason to keep on living? I'm not saying we should start bringing out the nerf hammer or anything, but I do want something that'll encourage me to keep on fighting despite being put in a cell where I will probably end up dying in. I wanna have that feeling of hope again.

[YungCuz]

The feeling of hope to escape after being nested will never come back. Only darkness and depression comes.

[Toroic]

I'm generally against resin cuffs in general. I understand why they were implemented but I think they make playing sentinel strain xenos and guarding hosts too easy.

But honestly, you will never escape a properly built nest, the purpose of building them is to preserve the host. You should really treat being securely nested the same as being killed. I personally would ghost and then play xeno, if I wasn't playing xeno already.

If xenos cannot reliably capture marines until they burst, they cannot maintain their numbers against marine late-joins and cloning. Sometimes an idiot xeno will die as a young runner 5x in a single game.

[completelynewguy]

Just RP with the Xeno watching you to let you stand up and take off the cuffs; then Harm Intent, aim for the mouth, and click on yourself with a gun. Only catch is that this happens after knowledge of being infected spreads.

[YungCuz]

Just RP with the Xeno watching you

Man you haven't been where i've been.

[Renomaki]

Just RP with the Xeno watching you to let you stand up and take off the cuffs; then Harm Intent, aim for the mouth, and click on yourself with a gun. Only catch is that this happens after knowledge of being infected spreads.

2 problems with this.

1: Most, if any, Xenos would NEVER let you even get up on your feet, and there have been cases where they would tackle you down even if you haven't broke free of your nest. Unlike the marines, xenos don't have time for RP, all they can do is kill, infect, and try not to die, little casual chatter to be had in the process. Most xenos just play to win, since there really isn't anything more than CAN do in their position, unlike a survivor, who is very flexible and can have all sorts of RP fun.

2: Most marines would probably just end up shooting the alien than themselves if given the chance, since if an alien just sat there letting them escape, they'll probably just assume it is SSD and blow its brains out for an easy kill... Or at least try to, until they realize that it wasn't AFK and they get tackled back into the nest.

[Toroic]

If we define RP as playing a character accurately, playing a xeno as a relentless infection/murder machine would actually be proper roleplay.

Playing them as a friendly scary looking wild dog would not.

I generally emote back to marines to emote, but I ignore jumbled human speech. We can creepily caress you for a reason.

[Casany]

2 problems with this.

1: Most, if any, Xenos would NEVER let you even get up on your feet, and there have been cases where they would tackle you down even if you haven't broke free of your nest. Unlike the marines, xenos don't have time for RP, all they can do is kill, infect, and try not to die, little casual chatter to be had in the process. Most xenos just play to win, since there really isn't anything more than CAN do in their position, unlike a survivor, who is very flexible and can have all sorts of RP fun.

2: Most marines would probably just end up shooting the alien than themselves if given the chance, since if an alien just sat there letting them escape, they'll probably just assume it is SSD and blow its brains out for an easy kill... Or at least try to, until they realize that it wasn't AFK and they get tackled back into the nest.

I agree with this. I always bring 2 pistols so I can go down swinging. My escapee kills are 4 drones, a runner, a hunter, two spitters, and a hivelord. I know I won't get outa the hive so I just kill. It is pretty hopeless though

[completelynewguy]

I guess I'm a special case then.

[forwardslashN]

There are 60 marines on the server just like you. You are not supposed to be the hero of the story, nor are you Rambo. If you get captured by the aliens, your story is over, so go do something else for a while or RP out your final moments. That is the way combat is portrayed in the films, and has intentionally been the atmosphere of the server.

[Renomaki]

There are 60 marines on the server just like you. You are not supposed to be the hero of the story, nor are you Rambo. If you get captured by the aliens, your story is over, so go do something else for a while or RP out your final moments. That is the way combat is portrayed in the films, and has intentionally been the atmosphere of the server.

So, what you are pretty much telling me is that there is really nothin we can do about the situation and to simply just give up all hope the moment you get hugged and nested in a xeno prison, and to not even bother trying to escape at all despite that being coded in?

Yeah, that is kinda depressing...

[Youngblood]

Personally I like that factor, being hopeless and all. It ups the ante and sometimes makes for quite a challenge, even if it's just the attempt of blowing one's own brains out. The best bet, and most realistic scenario to make it out alive, would probably be to hope for other marines to come to the rescue. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Renomaki]

Personally I like that factor, being hopeless and all. It ups the ante and sometimes makes for quite a challenge, even if it's just the attempt of blowing one's own brains out. The best bet, and most realistic scenario to make it out alive, would probably be to hope for other marines to come to the rescue. I wouldn't want it any other way.

As interesting and challenging as it can be sometimes, there are many times where I yearn to glance around from my cell till I see a beacon of hope and can ask myself "Am I gonna be ok?" without already knowing the sad, sad answer.

[forwardslashN]

So, what you are pretty much telling me is that there is really nothin we can do about the situation and to simply just give up all hope the moment you get hugged and nested in a xeno prison, and to not even bother trying to escape at all despite that being coded in?

Yeah, that is kinda depressing...

You have more than enough opportunity to fight back. I've escaped xeno cuffs, checker hives, checker hives in the caves, and so forth numerous times. I've taken down tier 3s with me in the hive itself with a knife, while infected, and I've seen infected marines kill off the hive after escaping. Really competent marines don't even get captured a lot of the time, they go down fighting instead. But those cases are not the norm; you are not supposed to be the most robust marine on the server. If you don't want to be in a situation where you are constantly captured and nested, do not play on the front line. Play a doctor, MT, or even command. It's fairly mind boggling to me why people rush in the thick of combat and expect to come out like sunshine and roses. That's not how it works.

[Youngblood]

As interesting and challenging as it can be sometimes, there are many times where I yearn to glance around from my cell till I see a beacon of hope and can ask myself "Am I gonna be ok?" without already knowing the sad, sad answer.

I made it out a couple of times and took 1, maybe 2 aliens along with me in a last stand. The only times I actually fled the nest was with the help of other marines. I'll probably say I died 8/10 times when being captured, but that ratio is honestly fine in my books. I think that's realistic and it doesn't take away from enjoying the game too much. And let me just say I'm unrobust as fuck. You could probably slaughter my character with a broom even if he were to wield a pulse rifle.

I guess me saying that doesn't help your case much, but yeah, I suppose this particular game mode requires a certain level of imbalance and having the odds stacked against your favor is just part of the experience. Personally I learned to appreciate that.

[Renomaki]

You have more than enough opportunity to fight back. I've escaped xeno cuffs, checker hives, checker hives in the caves, and so forth numerous times. I've taken down tier 3s with me in the hive itself with a knife, while infected, and I've seen infected marines kill off the hive after escaping. Really competent marines don't even get captured a lot of the time, they go down fighting instead. But those cases are not the norm; you are not supposed to be the most robust marine on the server. If you don't want to be in a situation where you are constantly captured and nested, do not play on the front line. Play a doctor, MT, or even command. It's fairly mind boggling to me why people rush in the thick of combat and expect to come out like sunshine and roses. That's not how it works.

I am not implying that I want to be the most robust marine of them all in the slightest. In fact, I am not ashamed of the fact that I am one of the least robust marines around, who is lucky to get a single, personal xeno kill in a round if any, let alone if I even hit anything. I'm just wanting to feel like I stand a chance is all.

And keep in mind, I'm not the kinda guy who rambos and runs off seeking glory. As any SL who had me in their squad knows (such as Xur, even if he only had me like, what, 2 times?) is that I obey orders and stick to the group to the best of my ability. That doesn't mean I don't ever get hugged and dragged away. Very often it is something you just can't help at all, no matter how hard you try. Be it getting abandoned by your friends after getting hugged, or having your retreat cut off and surrounded, the cell is very often your final resting place.

That doesn't mean I don't want to be a marine just because that is a fate I know too well, though. You aren't going to get good if you just throw up your arms and give up being a marine (Hell, the reason I even came to this server is because station life doing paperwork has lost her luster). Again, I just wanna feel the sensation to never give up and keep fighting as any bird flipping, trash talking marine would, instead of simply just sitting there in total acceptance. Doesn't feel very marine like if you ask me.

But then, that is just me. I made this simply to express myself and see how others felt about it, and that maybe there was somethin to do about it. But I guess by the looks of things, I guess I'll just have to accept that it is just the norm, even if I find it anti-climatic for a marine, star of the show or not.

[Toroic]

I am not implying that I want to be the most robust marine of them all in the slightest. In fact, I am not ashamed of the fact that I am one of the least robust marines around, who is lucky to get a single, personal xeno kill in a round if any, let alone if I even hit anything. I'm just wanting to feel like I stand a chance is all.

And keep in mind, I'm not the kinda guy who rambos and runs off seeking glory. As any SL who had me in their squad knows (such as Xur, even if he only had me like, what, 2 times?) is that I obey orders and stick to the group to the best of my ability. That doesn't mean I don't ever get hugged and dragged away. Very often it is something you just can't help at all, no matter how hard you try. Be it getting abandoned by your friends after getting hugged, or having your retreat cut off and surrounded, the cell is very often your final resting place.

That doesn't mean I don't want to be a marine just because that is a fate I know too well, though. You aren't going to get good if you just throw up your arms and give up being a marine (Hell, the reason I even came to this server is because station life doing paperwork has lost her luster). Again, I just wanna feel the sensation to never give up and keep fighting as any bird flipping, trash talking marine would, instead of simply just sitting there in total acceptance. Doesn't feel very marine like if you ask me.

But then, that is just me. I made this simply to express myself and see how others felt about it, and that maybe there was somethin to do about it. But I guess by the looks of things, I guess I'll just have to accept that it is just the norm, even if I find it anti-climatic for a marine, star of the show or not.

This game is very much a competition. Imagine you had a good chance of breaking out and escaping. How would that feel for the xeno player who captured you alive with huggers produced by the queen, managed to safely and quickly transport you into a nest a third xeno player made, and then have you get out?

That wouldn't be fair at all, that they played well and did so much work and you could just escape.

[Renomaki]

This game is very much a competition. Imagine you had a good chance of breaking out and escaping. How would that feel for the xeno player who captured you alive with huggers produced by the queen, managed to safely and quickly transport you into a nest a third xeno player made, and then have you get out?

That wouldn't be fair at all, that they played well and did so much work and you could just escape.

I wouldn't want marine escapes to be easy to pull off by any means, no no. All I'm asking is for an incentive to not just throw your arms up in defeat the moment a marine gets nested. It just feels like a waste of time when marines attempt to escape and the one alien sitting there refuses to budge an inch to give you a sense of hope.

I played xeno a fair few times, glancing over marines in their nest.. But I NEVER sit right next to them, because you know, I got better things to do (and heat vision). If they try to escape, of course I stop them, but at least they get a chance to attempt, rather than being completely denied.

Honestly, I really don't know what I can do to make the lives of nested marines a little more bearable without breaking the balance and ruining it for everyone in the process. I'm not a developer, and I'm not a big name CM celebrity either. I'm just a commoner who just wants to express his thoughts on something that has been bothering him as of late after having it happen far too often, and yearning to have that thrill of a possible escape back, instead of having the metawisdom of knowing that the moment you jump up, you are just gonna get instatackled right back down and into the nest. Figured maybe some of the bigger names might offer a suggestion, yuh know?

[Kreydis]

Do people just hate the thought of playing aliens? It's honestly more relaxing after a retard infested marines game.

[Renomaki]

Do people just hate the thought of playing aliens? It's honestly more relaxing after a retard infested marines game.

While this might be a bit off topic, I myself prefer playing alien in the early game when I feel like it (or die as a survivor). Humans are just more interesting, while every time I had as a xeno was rather.. Dull. Late game xeno I tend to avoid, because by then it isn't quite as much fun, since you are stuck as a young t1 that'll probably just end up serving as cannonfodder for the maxed out aliens.

And if you want true relaxation, I suggest being a janitor. Not having to deal with things like RO lines or piles of bodies in medbay, nor having to risk life and limb fighting a pointless cause down on the planet... Just you and your handy dandy bucket and mop making the Sulico look nice for once, rather than the mess it often is in most rounds.

[doodeeda]

Well, I don't think there's anything you can or should be able to "do" if you're being babysitted a Xenomorph! But, one thing to keep in mind, that alien is not helping the rest of the aliens fight off the marines or infect them. If an alien can kill two marines in a fight, you've saved two lives by just being nested. The alien that's standing right next to you is making the choice to do so, and there's not much you can do against that. The best thing you can hope for if you want the thrill of escaping is a careless or inattentive alien team. You're punishing them for their mistakes if you escape.

Perhaps there could be some more room for ol' human ingenuity rather than resist..then resist again if you have cuffs (while standing like a doofus). Perhaps if you could prime a grenade or..something else that'll prove to those damn aliens that you're not just cattle.

[Sancronis]

Well, I don't think there's anything you can or should be able to "do" if you're being babysitted a Xenomorph!
Perhaps there could be some more room for ol' human ingenuity rather than resist..then resist again if you have cuffs (while standing like a doofus). Perhaps if you could prime a grenade or..something else that'll prove to those damn aliens that you're not just cattle.

Priming grenades in nests should definitely be a thing.

[KingKire]

I've mentioned it before, but escaping out of nests, being put inside nests by sentinels... thats fine and dandy, but what makes nesting feel really bad is that a host has to sit and look at their screen for +- several minutes while their "character" tries to break out. You dont do anything, you just sit and stare at your screen, which just grinds a player who wants to play.

A majority of the time, your stuck in a box which you cant see out of, which means you are technically blinded as well. Its just painful. I think it would be nice to change the nesting formula up somehow and make it more interactive. I think that when you mash that resist button, your character should be trying to resist as well. But that puts us back to the point of how do you balance out all the snowflake marines who just go crazy trying to break out.

Which puts me at the thought that people who are nested should be just permanently nested, no chance to break free without a helping hand. Then you counter this by making hosts more resistant to capture somehow ( maybe adjusting huggers, maybe making marines harder to tackle down, etc.) I think it'd be cooler to see a marine who was dragged from the front lines, break free at the river and somehow try to make it back to friendly lines before being captured. I remember when i had been hugged and then a runner ate me to move me back to the hive. But he took too much time and i managed to wake up inside his stomach, pull out my knife and burst out of him right when he was near the cave entrance. That was a cool moment in my book, and i never forgot it even though i eventually burst and died from the infection.

side note: quick thought, maybe a good way to balance out the nesting mechanic would be so when you break out of the nest you can cut open your cuffs with the knife for a quick way to free your hands. But i'd much prefer perment nesting in my book.

[Dailychaos101]

Priming grenades in nests should definitely be a thing.

No it shouldn't. Marines breaking free and priming nades is already really annoying. Allowing them to do it while nested is even worse and provides no opportunity for the aliens to stop them.

[Kreydis]

No it shouldn't. Marines breaking free and priming nades is already really annoying. Allowing them to do it while nested is even worse and provides no opportunity for the aliens to stop them.

Being cuffed makes it so they can't nade. So them being able to blow themselves up is slightly the aliens fault.