Player Complaint: Victor 'Orbital' Kaipov

[ParadoxSpace]

Your Byond Key: ParadoxSpace

Your Character Name: In all of these incidents I was Ikthya-de Luar-ke

Accused Byond Key(if known): Teknokat?

Character Name: Victor 'Orbital' Kaipov

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Many rounds.

What rule(s) were broken: Don't be a dick and no powergaming

Description of the incident: Victor Kaipov, on every predator round, forms a group to hunt down Predators which he attempts to kill with an almost religious fervor. Within this group is usually contained a SADAR user with AP rockets that instantly kill Predators, preventing them from using their bracers and allowing Victor's gang to loot them. Every Predator round, without fail, if Victor is playing and alive, he will attempt this, getting large groups of marines to fire at us, ordering a SADAR user to kill us, and simply hunting us whenever possible. Without a semblance of trying to RP with us.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): I have none at the moment.

How you would punish the accused: Tell them to stop this.

[Evan Stelf]

Evan Stelf here, I can occur to a witness on this player complaint. I was using a SADAR on this round and was in Victor's squad. When I came out of the research building there was a predator chasing a charlie marine around and stabbing him while he was shooting. From what I saw these preds were clearly hostile. I ran back and reloaded, and came back out. Next thing I know a predator drags the head of a marine to the research FOB and drops his head next to the man's body. By the time this has happened a large group has formed around these people. I requested multiple times if I should fire at them, since they clearly are hostile and have killed a marine. The BO and SL both told me to open fire at them and the chaos started. Since clearly the preds were hostile.

If there wasn't the dead marine and the attack you had on our marines outside of the FOB, I would understand that this would be a problem. I haven't been in any other rounds that I know of that Victor has lead an onsluaght onto predators but this round I would think it was justified, given the events that happened before.

Feel free to clarify for me what exactly what happened before the previous round today, I would really like to know why preds were attacking marines already just as we cleared the spiders and in the research FOB, thanks!

[Boltersam]

Evan Stelf here, I can occur to a witness on this player complaint. I was using a SADAR on this round and was in Victor's squad. When I came out of the research building there was a predator chasing a charlie marine around and stabbing him while he was shooting. From what I saw these preds were clearly hostile. I ran back and reloaded, and came back out. Next thing I know a predator drags the head of a marine to the research FOB and drops his head next to the man's body. By the time this has happened a large group has formed around these people. I requested multiple times if I should fire at them, since they clearly are hostile and have killed a marine. The BO and SL both told me to open fire at them and the chaos started. Since clearly the preds were hostile.

If there wasn't the dead marine and the attack you had on our marines outside of the FOB, I would understand that this would be a problem. I haven't been in any other rounds that I know of that Victor has lead an onsluaght onto predators but this round I would think it was justified, given the events that happened before.

Feel free to clarify for me what exactly what happened before the previous round today, I would really like to know why preds were attacking marines already just as we cleared the spiders and in the research FOB, thanks!

The complaint isn't about any round in particular, but as that round the marine you saw being stabbed was also the one that shot the predator on sight with an SMG.

As a witness to this multiple times, I attest to the claims, and this particular assholish behavior isn't limited to Victor, they're just one of the more prominent ones.

[ParadoxSpace]

Thanks for showin' up Evan. Basically, we didn't mean to attack said FOB, personally I was shot trying to rescue a dead comrade away from the marine area so we could detonate him.
Before this round, I've observed (and been victim to), Victor going out of his way to validhunt predators. Only once did he ever attempt RPing with me, and that was during an honor duel.

[Sarah_U.]

I'm staying out of this, you did shoot me when I tried to RP, but you're not an asshole and actually only try to have fun poking at me in OOC. While I slightly dislike that, it's alright with me and I just hope we can RP sometimes despite the fact you gotta shoot me once in a while if I'm pred.

[Feweh]

Here's my issue with this.

The first issue is yes, Victor is a power-gamer and is known for it. However, I can also name 10 other well known players who are exactly the same.
It's difficult to punish players for playing to their best abilities. After all, there is no rule that says MARINES HAVE TO ROLE-PLAY WITH THE PREDATORS.

The second issue being that we need to use common sense as Predators.
What the hell are predators doing approaching giant groups of Marines and not expecting to get shot?
Some of the best RP you have as a predator is saving a lone marine or finding a stranded survivor, nothing ever good comes out out approaching Marine FOB's to RP.


So the issue is, do we crack down on Victor and many other players who are known to really push the boundaries of power-gaming?
I don't know and it's something that might need to be discussed.

[Evan Stelf]

The complaint isn't about any round in particular, but as that round the marine you saw being stabbed was also the one that shot the predator on sight with an SMG.

As a witness to this multiple times, I attest to the claims, and this particular assholish behavior isn't limited to Victor, they're just one of the more prominent ones.

Alright, I didn't see what happened at initial contact so I can see why this whole thing started now. Thanks!

[TeknoKot]

Bunch of predators started attacking charlie because they shot them out of fear/were probably new, then a bunch of more got wounded. They decided to nearly kill a marine, up until a bunch of more predators run up to us looking friendly, like nothing will happen to them. Of course I ordered to attack, because you've proven to be hostile already, you decide to fuck with marines, you get hit back.

Step up your game, set traps around Ice Colony and capture marines with them never knowing what hit em', take them to your den, fight them honorably, coming up like a bunch of american football dudes asking for a fight is not what I've seen predators do, which you guys tend to do a lot.

[ParadoxSpace]

Bunch of predators started attacking charlie because they shot them out of fear/were probably new, then a bunch of more got wounded. They decided to nearly kill a marine, up until a bunch of more predators run up to us looking friendly, like nothing will happen to them. Of course I ordered to attack, because you've proven to be hostile already, you decide to fuck with marines, you get hit back.

Step up your game, set traps around Ice Colony and capture marines with them never knowing what hit em', take them to your den, fight them honorably, coming up like a bunch of american football dudes asking for a fight is not what I've seen predators do, which you guys tend to do a lot.

This isn't about a single round, this is about your history.

[TeknoKot]

This isn't about a single round, this is about your history.

History. Yeah, predators kept attacking marines, hence I HUNT THEM DOWN. With Sarah's thing, when she attempted to RP with us, one of the predators tore off a marines arm off with the fucking spikes and harassed the FoB a little while that time, so I ordered to shoot her.

Don't expect no fucking harm back when you do it.

[ParadoxSpace]

History. Yeah, predators kept attacking marines, hence I HUNT THEM DOWN. With Sarah's thing, when she attempted to RP with us, one of the predators tore off a marines arm off with the fucking spikes and harassed the FoB a little while that time, so I ordered to shoot her.

Don't expect no fucking harm back when you do it.

It isn't your job to go validhunt them. And if you do, the least you could do is even /attempt/ roleplay.

[TeknoKot]

It isn't your job to go validhunt them. And if you do, the least you could do is even /attempt/ roleplay.

So harassing marines constantly isn't a reason to hunt the predators, good fucking logic right there, I agree with you completely! I must also attempt roleplay, even though after seeing how they literally tore someones FUCKING ARMS OFF IN AN INSTANT.

[ParadoxSpace]

So harassing marines constantly isn't a reason to hunt the predators, good fucking logic right there, I agree with you completely! I must also attempt roleplay, even though after seeing how they literally tore someones FUCKING ARMS OFF IN AN INSTANT.

So you're going to go hunt us down wordlessly. Sounds like powergaming to me.

[TeknoKot]

So you're going to go hunt us down wordlessly. Sounds like powergaming to me.

By the same logic, we'd have to ATTEMPT ROLEPLAY with ALIENS, because hunting down wordlessly is so bad it's powergaming to the max! Despite harassing MARINES CONSTANTLY AT A FAST FUCKING RATE.

[ParadoxSpace]

It's almost like Predators and aliens are two entirely different things.

[TeknoKot]

It's almost like Predators and aliens are two entirely different things.

But both keep harassing marines, and both get consequences for it.

[ParadoxSpace]

But both keep harassing marines, and both get consequences for it.

The difference being that you can, and are almost required to, roleplay with preds while not powergaming.

[EMT_321]

Lately i've seen several instance of predator squads harassing marine encampments, then responding with overwhelming force for the slightest of reasons. The amount of predators boarding the sulaco and blowing up has gone up as well. I've seen 2 instances of predators friendly to marines, and both were when xenos literally had both groups trapped.

Its very hard to restrain yourself when you see a super-powered individual who has every capability to kill you at a moments notice with overwhelming firepower.

[TeknoKot]

The difference being that you can, and are almost required to, roleplay with preds while not powergaming.

Where, in the rules does it state, you are REQUIRED TO ROLEPLAY WITH PREDATORS FOR WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY EVEN DO, EVEN KILLING YOUR ENTIRE SQUAD.

[Xurphorus]

Ok this is turning into a arguement instead of a valid player report. My two cents on this situation, Marines are NOT bound by the honor code, aliens are NOT bound the honor code. Preds can go about doing what they do and hope for the best when they encounter marines at their OWN RISK. If a marine wants to DUEL a pred do not EXPECT another marine to not intervene because of said HONOR CODE. If I saw a marine get fucking hammered by a pred, best believe I'm gonna fill the motherfucker full of lead. We aint friends, we dont know a fucking thing about em. If Preds are considered hostile because of ONE preds actions and they decided to kill off all the preds with a hunting party so be it. If people like Victor Kaipov, or Me form hunting groups its only because we take the INITIATIVE as squad leaders. Everyone else wants to be hunky dory with fucking preds but you wont see that happening when they are considered hostile by ripping a marine to pieces in front of another marine.

Stop the bitching, accept the situation as it is, stick to the pred lore, and hunt. RP at your own risk.

[zskninoh]

I'm staying out of this, you did shoot me when I tried to RP, but you're not an asshole and actually only try to have fun poking at me in OOC. While I slightly dislike that, it's alright with me and I just hope we can RP sometimes despite the fact you gotta shoot me once in a while if I'm pred.

I also can attest to being noscoped with a SADAR when trying to RP with marines. I can also attest to seeing other preds get killed with SADAR's when trying to do meaningful RP. While this does irritate me to some extent; I share Sarah's stance on this issue. However, I also agree with Xurphorus and Feweh aswell. This really is getting out of hand, slowly turning into a salt mine.

[slc97]

This has turned into one big giant dick measuring contest. I played on this round and rounds before it where I've seen this happen. Victor is super powergamey, we all know it. That's why he asks for his special shotgun at the beginning of the round with every attachment known to marine-kind (and some known only to dolphins). Him going off and hunting predators is just a thing he does and it is fine as long as the predators have been fighting the marines. Victor really doesn't RP much, so I can understand him going off and killing predators that have killed marines, even if the marines shot first.

Here is the real problem: Every time that he does this, he does not inform command of even the existence of these creatures and he goes way way way off orders to hunt them down. The problem is, if he wants to play a squad leader, as he almost always plays, then he has to play a squad leader and not a standard marine that goes off hunting the enemy. Like Feweh said, there are a number of players who power-game, and maybe that does really need to be cracked down on, but I think the real issue here is playing your role. If you want to go hunt down the enemy and be a hero, then go be a standard marine where you dying from doing something like this will not have an effect on an entire squad and command.

Furthermore, I mentioned earlier that Kaipov rarely, if ever, even mentions the existence of these creatures or the fact that he plans to fight them to command. While you are not required to roleplay with predators, you are required to roleplay with other marines. A reasonable SL would at the very lowest levels of RP be like "hey, I see these fucky looking creatures and I'm going to fight them."

Final Disclaimer: I am not Kaipov's biggest fan, I feel he abuses parts of the game and does not play his role properly. Him and I often ICly talk some shit to each other. That being said, I have no actual grudge against him. I think that this type of powergamey behavior and actively straying from the bounds of a characters role is pervasive of the server with many players and should be addressed. I do not think that there should be a direct punishment against Victor at all. I think we simply need to work on how to make the line on powergaming and properly playing your role more clear to the player-base.

[Feweh]

Anyways, to level out this topic.

The issue is essentially Victor in this particular report, being power-gaming and not RPing enough.
This I can support as I and many others would classify Victor as a power-gamey player.

However, they aren't really breaking any rule or really of the rails so I don't see any possible punishment.
The issue isn't really related to Predators, but I understand the context and basic example you gave.
I will however speak to Apop/Rahl about potentially expanding the rules to cover this specific power-gaming and speak to numerous other players.

One of the biggest issue we have is probably 90% of the best players we have and most well known all fall under this category.
Basically what we need is a "sportsmanship rule" almost.

- Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Show respect for the other players and opposition, if you expect it yourself.
- Have an understanding and an appreciation of the rules. The spirit of good sportsmanship depends on conforming to the intent of the rule and not look for a loop hole

[TeknoKot]

This has turned into one big giant dick measuring contest. I played on this round and rounds before it where I've seen this happen. Victor is super powergamey, we all know it. That's why he asks for his special shotgun at the beginning of the round with every attachment known to marine-kind (and some known only to dolphins). Him going off and hunting predators is just a thing he does and it is fine as long as the predators have been fighting the marines. Victor really doesn't RP much, so I can understand him going off and killing predators that have killed marines, even if the marines shot first.

Yes because sometimes asking for a tactical shotgun is super powergamey(which happened like what, a week or so ago, couple of rounds I carried it? Be real.), even though most rounds I carried a machete, but yeah, okay. I should also let it slide that some cloaking cunt decided to harass me and marines because roleplay favours, even when they tear your arms apart.

Here is the real problem: Every time that he does this, he does not inform command of even the existence of these creatures and he goes way way way off orders to hunt them down. The problem is, if he wants to play a squad leader, as he almost always plays, then he has to play a squad leader and not a standard marine that goes off hunting the enemy. Like Feweh said, there are a number of players who power-game, and maybe that does really need to be cracked down on, but I think the real issue here is playing your role. If you want to go hunt down the enemy and be a hero, then go be a standard marine where you dying from doing something like this will not have an effect on an entire squad and command.

Hundreds of reports against dreadlocked people attacking the FoB, command is definitely never informed, even requesting said supplies to deal with said enemy! Even coordinating your squad on where the fuck they should go to DEAL with the said enemy. I just run off and somehow rambo against predators, despite actually leading a squad to take them down.

Furthermore, I mentioned earlier that Kaipov rarely, if ever, even mentions the existence of these creatures or the fact that he plans to fight them to command. While you are not required to roleplay with predators, you are required to roleplay with other marines. A reasonable SL would at the very lowest levels of RP be like "hey, I see these fucky looking creatures and I'm going to fight them."

Jesus, it's like I have to talk over regular channels now so you can see me roleplaying with ALL of the marines and MISLEADING them probably, instead of, you know, using your own squad channel?

Final Disclaimer: I am not Kaipov's biggest fan, I feel he abuses parts of the game and does not play his role properly. Him and I often ICly talk some shit to each other. That being said, I have no actual grudge against him. I think that this type of powergamey behavior and actively straying from the bounds of a characters role is pervasive of the server with many players and should be addressed. I do not think that there should be a direct punishment against Victor at all. I think we simply need to work on how to make the line on powergaming and properly playing your role more clear to the player-base.

Taking your squad out to kill predators who fucked with marines is really abusing your own role. Hell, LEADING is abusing your own role, you just need to talk to marines, not tell them where to gooooo or to shoot at whooo!

[slc97]

Please don't try and fight me on here. I took a neutral stance.

The role of a squad leader is to relay the orders of higher up command to the marines on the ground and enforce those orders. When squad leaders decide that they are just going off to hunt random bad guys, even if they are bringing their squads, they are not following the orders given by command. Now this is not to say that SL's should be mindless drones. They should be personalized, even a little rebellious at times, but no one would ever be promoted to Staff Sergeant if they cannot follow orders.

Also, beyond the hyperbole of 100s of reports, command had little to know reports of this incident that were distinguishable from reports of xenos except for humanoid.

Finally, I think we could all do to speak a little more kindly and with a little more respect for each other when it comes to more hot-button issues like this. Getting angry at each other is not going to solve anything. Maybe apply Feweh's new do unto others rule to bigger forum issues like this.