Allow butchered targets to respawn (Predators can give respawns)

[Warnipple]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Anyone killed and butchered by a predator should be given a respawn.
Predators are given a cloned butcher command called "Collect Trophy" or "Glory Butcher" (the latter being my suggestion). This new cloned command, will grant a respawn to those deemed worthy enough by a pred. The new command will require the dead player to accept the prompt for a respawn.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Reduces salt, being killed by a predator is an experience and not the end of the world. Preds can hunt more while not simultaneously decreasing the enjoyment of other players or overall enjoyment of the server.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Aliens killed by a predator can respawn in a larva's body and have their body completely respawned. Replace larva, read name to know which caste and level to respawn and change number to prevent duplicate numbers on the field. The alien's jelly timer would be reset unless you can implement something to preserve it.

Marines killed by predators can be respawned in cyro with a completely random name to prevent duplicates. They would have to gear up again.

There should be no benefit to being killed by a pred but not a great negative either. The downside of a benefit (to being killed by a pred) would be everyone wanting to die from a pred so I suggest it would work off gibbing/skinning. Since preds have a habit of gibbing and skinning their kills for trophies. Perhaps the respawn can activate on that? If they don't get a chance to skin/gib the body then it wasn't a good kill and respawn is not given and salt is generated. However if it was a legit hunt and a successful one then they should be given a respawn for being prey.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Its necessary that this system is automatic because it would be annoying for admins/moderators to investigate and respawn anyone killed by preds. Of course preds could ahelp whenever they have a successful hunt. For now, I would recommend a new panel for admins/mods to respawn a alien/marine until it can be automated.
- Preds cannot revive other preds. Queen can only be revived in the first 5 minutes of dying to prevent 2 queens.

Plan: Clone Queen's gut command or predator's butcher command. Add some flavour text, increase delay, add it to give a prompt to the being butchered player. Write respawn code for marines/aliens.

After a lengthy discussion with our resident predator, Sarah_U. We've come to the conclusion that several things need to be changed in order for this to be viable and fair:
- An additional command needs to be put in so that preds may normally butcher and butcher-respawn. This new command should be more lengthy than the normal butcher command. "Upon accepting the prompt, the predator begins to butcher carefully its prey, taking away the head and spine, removing the skin with precious caution and taking lengthy time to take apart its kill". (The prey is treated with respect).
- A message must be given to the player when they are respawned stating that they're a completely new character and shouldn't go after any predators again. A system to prevent double respawns would be nice.
- Additional and strict rules need to be put in place on who the pred may revive. They can only revive worthy prey and can't go around reviving people all willy-nilly.
- Allow the respawnee to choose where they want to respawn. (Personally, I'm in favour of fixed positions).

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

This seems like a really strange suggestion.

Doesn't this also encourage people to go after Predators? If they get a free respawn from being killed, what do they really have to lose? A few minutes of gearing up again?

Or are you suggesting people who duel Predators honorably can be granted the right to respawn again?

[LordeKilly]

No? If you add this, then why not just add in marines respawning when they get killed by an alien?

I'm going to guess this is just another salt suggestion, so -1.

[Warnipple]

This seems like a really strange suggestion.

Doesn't this also encourage people to go after Predators? If they get a free respawn from being killed, what do they really have to lose? A few minutes of gearing up again?

Or are you suggesting people who duel Predators honorably can be granted the right to respawn again?

Which is why I suggest only gibbing/skinning will give them a respawn.

Only successful hunts or battles are granted a respawn. You don't really get 'rewarded' for being prey but you don't get removed from the round for being prey. I believe this suggestion makes it more enjoyable for both sides.

[Sarah_U.]

I'll -1... Just don't rambo marines unless they're idiots and shoot at you.
I generally get 5+ kills per hunt and I'm being passive as hell. Players I kill deserved it and they know since they generally attack me directly or became targets for whatever reasons.
Simply don't go rambo on FOBs and other areas and keep the balance.

(also, my crafting suggestion get removed if you do this since you'd most likely begin to skin a lot more preys)...

EDIT: Woah, my wording was worse than I thought, forgive me for that. Although, I'm switching to NEUTRAL after discussing in private with Warnipple.

[Warnipple]

Alright since no one is reading the entire suggestion, I've underlined the most important part of the suggestion in the OP.

[Warnipple]

No? If you add this, then why not just add in marines respawning when they get killed by an alien?

I'm going to guess this is just another salt suggestion, so -1.

I'll -1... Just don't rambo marines unless they're idiots and shoot at you.

I generally get 5+ kills per hunt and I'm being passive as hell. Players I kill deserved it and they know since they generally attack me directly or became targets for whatever reasons.
Simply don't go rambo on FOBs and other areas and keep the balance.

(also, my crafting suggestion get removed if you do this since you'd most likely begin to skin a lot more preys)...

I don't believe you guys have read the entire suggestion so I'll post the most important part, here for your viewing pleasure.

There should be no benefit to being killed by a pred but not a great negative either. The downside of a benefit (to being killed by a pred) would be everyone wanting to die from a pred so I suggest it would work off gibbing/skinning. Since preds have a habit of gibbing and skinning their kills for trophies. Perhaps the respawn can activate on that?

Its not a problem of preds ramboing marines, or marines going after preds recklessly. Its the successful hunts or duels that are the ones, that receive the respawn. Right now, preds hunt, kill and that player is removed from the round unless they join alien or get cloned (cloning not possible if they are turned into a trophy). What I'm suggestining is respawning them if it was a legitimate good hunt or duel, which the predator has time to gib/skin. They are not rewarded with a respawn but given one to compesate the life they lost. Predators don't make a huge impact on the round by choosing to hunt either side that way. They still can by choosing not to gib/skin but I feel this way gives more leeway and more enjoyment to both sides.

[coroneljones]

-1
Increases rambo
And the xeno one is really bad,it means a Tier 3 can chase you without worry or fear of dying

[Warnipple]

Once again, they only get respawned if they get skinned/gibbed. So if some asshole xeno will chase you down then simply don't gib/skin them and they won't respawn.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

Once again, they only get respawned if they get skinned/gibbed. So if some asshole xeno will chase you down then simply don't gib/skin them and they won't respawn.

This is a much more concise description, and something agree with.

I think there a huge misconception by the title that this is for everyone killed by a predator. No, this is for those who the Predator views favorably and thinks deserves another go as another life.

[NoahKirchner]

This is a much more concise description, and something agree with.

I think there a huge misconception by the title that this is for everyone killed by a predator. No, this is for those who the Predator views favorably and thinks deserves another go as another life.

Kinda defeats the purpose of an honourable duel to the death, right?

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

I run into some marines as Predator who are really great. The type of people who are generally honorable, don't resort to cheap tactics, and provide great RP.

When it comes the time to twist their spine out of their back, I can't help but feel guilty. Sure, I bet they had a fun experience fighring, but I feel bad killing them.

There has to be some sort of reward for these players in my opinion.

[lucashunter608]

people clearly don't read don't they? this is a great suggestion, +1

[Boltersam]

I run into some marines as Predator who are really great. The type of people who are generally honorable, don't resort to cheap tactics, and provide great RP.

When it comes the time to twist their spine out of their back, I can't help but feel guilty. Sure, I bet they had a fun experience fighring, but I feel bad killing them.

There has to be some sort of reward for these players in my opinion.

I have to agree. When you find these gems, it's really something. +1, for reasons stated above. At least it doesn't prevent me from mutilating the rambos that chase us whenever they have the opportunity.

EDIT: If Sarah's crafting suggestion is accepted, there should be a way to get materials without butchering.

[NoahKirchner]

I like the idea of rewarding them, but I feel like granting them another life defeats the purpose of an honourable duel to the death, (at least another human life?) I don't know, just my two cents.

[Shyguychizzy]

-1 Though you do indeed have a valid point Warnipple or rather an interesting post regarding predators. Though even if a pred butchers em and they respawn I would assume they are more likely to go to the pred again and get another respawn. In which they would purposely Power game or Meta game their way fighting a pred knowing if the pred Gib them they can just do forth again and again.

[zskninoh]

+1, Think its a great idea that encourages more meaningful RP with preds. I agree with Joshuu on this, once in a while you meet that amazing marine that provides superb RP and honorable duels you. You feel so god damn bad when you kill him/her and claim a trophy. It's a great idea to allow worthy people like that to respawn in my opinion.

[LordeKilly]

snip

I understand what its stating, I just don't think trophies should work like that. Usually the more trophys you have the more successful hunt you have. If you have that mindset like some people, you're constantly respawning people who most certainly will come back to attack you. Whats dead should stay dead. Plus I can already foresee the metagame or powergame being used behind this, and it'll turn into something moderators would have to keep an eye on, which isn't needed seeing how chaotic rounds end up.

I'm standing with my -1.

[Sarah_U.]

I read the suggestion.
Here's a more complete point of view of what I meant:
- Predator cannot gib anyone they think would come back straight out at them (NLR rule in place so fixed)
- Spawns need to be set for a random xeno to spawn without insta-dying (Can be fixed easely)
- This generally entails a predator could stealthy revive a few people just because they consider them 'worthy foes'... But what's your PERSONAL OPINION of a worthy foe? (That's a problem, but staff can check it over and probably make rules)
- Nothing in the honour code stops you from declaring a brawl instead of a duel, making this a practice between the two to judge your skills for a later fight where both will discard their feelings and kill eachothers. (If I'm not mistaken)
- I'd literally stop butchering anyone whatsoever (Probably, maybe, not really if there's an option to simply butcher and another verb for this)

[zskninoh]

I read the suggestion.
Here's a more complete point of view of what I meant:
- Predator cannot gib anyone they think would come back straight out at them.
- Spawns need to be set for a random xeno to spawn without insta-dying.
- This generally entails a predator could stealthy revive a few people just because they consider them 'worthy foes'... But what's your PERSONAL OPINION of a worthy foe?
- Nothing in the honour code stops you from declaring a brawl instead of a duel, making this a practice between the two to judge your skills for a later fight where both will discard their feelings and kill eachothers. (If I'm not mistaken)
- I'd literally stop butchering anyone whatsoever.

Exactly how I feel about this.

[Sarah_U.]

Updated my 2nd post. Please read the main thread again later since Warnipple is updating it.

[forwardslashN]

-1
An honorable duel in itself should be the reward, and allowing the other party to come back really cheapens the entire concept. I'm really against this idea. The predator is not your friend. If you choose to duel them instead of running away or blowing them up with a rocket, then that's really a choice you have to live and probably die with. There are other IC ways to reward honorable combatants, that we could potentially expand on, and the predator does not always has to kill their prey either.

[Warnipple]

-1
An honorable duel in itself should be the reward, and allowing the other party to come back really cheapens the entire concept. I'm really against this idea. The predator is not your friend. If you choose to duel them instead of running away or blowing them up with a rocket, then that's really a choice you have to live and probably die with. There are other IC ways to reward honorable combatants, that we could potentially expand on, and the predator does not always has to kill their prey either.

I figured someone would feel that way so I've included that a prompt is added to ask if the player wants to respawn. They can choose not to respawn if they feel the same as you. The other option is coming back as a completely new and different character so they can play again.

[forwardslashN]

I figured someone would feel that way so I've included that a prompt is added to ask if the player wants to respawn. They can choose not to respawn if they feel the same as you. The other option is coming back as a completely new and different character so they can play again.

The problem with that is, people will expect you to let them respawn and they will get even more salty if you don't allow it. LOOC can get bad enough with the peanutgallery, just imagine what it would be like when the predator just doesn't feel the duel was honorable. Right now everyone is on equal ground and there is no expectation of anything, and I think we have enough extra rules for predators to follow. I don't think this is a good idea at all.

[ZDashe]

I'm neutral on this.

However, after reading, I had a random idea to just have a cloning pod installed inside the predator's ship. So if the predator may so choose, he may clone humans at his own discretion. This can set up a stage for finishing up an unfinished fight (honorable duel interrupted by death due to 3rd parties, e.g. Xenos or FF), round 2 of a duel if the predator feels that the first fight was too easy or not satisfying. If a hunting target has been skinned/gibbed, that hunt should be over and they shouldn't be cloned or revived I feel. The caveat is that the cloning pod has limited biomass and hence limited uses for such scenarios.

Drawbacks: Since these are preds, it might not be lore friendly for them to use Marine's cloning tech? I don't know. However, there are also sources of abuse, such as a predator reviving another dead predator.

Just wanna toss this idea out in the open and stimulate some thinking. But then again,

The problem with that is, people will expect you to let them respawn and they will get even more salty if you don't allow it. LOOC can get bad enough with the peanutgallery, just imagine what it would be like when the predator just doesn't feel the duel was honorable. Right now everyone is on equal ground and there is no expectation of anything, and I think we have enough extra rules for predators to follow. I don't think this is a good idea at all.

This is a very good point about people's expectations and rules. Still remaining neutral.