Increase complexity of surgery as a whole

[TheSpoonyCroy]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):Adding a bit of rng to operations and not the shrapnel removal kind of rng...

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):Right now surgery isn't a "hard" skill to learn, its just memorizing 8 or so different steps and combining them when needed to. At its "highest" forms its just trying to shave seconds off of the operation by the use of "bugs" (bugs I do want to stay in since they are actually the only thing that heightens the skill ceiling of surgery (only marginally)). Its to the point where many people don't play medical since its just so boring

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):Its odd that all the problems have very concrete solutions follow this stepped process and you are done, very little variety in such things. This is sort of the reason why I suggested this (shameless plug I admit but this suggestion is basically part 2 of my overall dream medical), but it was bashed for being too "hand holdy" when in actuality it could be used to help improve the complexity of surgery mechanics(so it can provide biolock his "full of mysteries and horrible mistakes" ss13 experience that the current system doesn't allow) of medical since at the current moment I don't care about the flavor text since its always static, I only care about the blue coloration of it, which means move to the next step now! (I can't say this is how all doctors work but I would assume after awhile most of the seasoned doctors don't care about flavor text either). At the current moment, you don't even need the advance scanner to work on someone (you can be called out for metagaming/powergaming but most admins don't stick around medical to give a toss), you figure out around the 80 brute damage mark that bone is broken, it can't be repaired until its brute damage is at X<40 (around 40), if they have been walking around use the medical kit, if they are bitching about the world being fussy you know they screwed up their brain and eyes (or they are new clones who weren't given rye if it wasn't put into the cryomix, which the chemist should), if they were shot just remove the shrapnel and etc. So with this suggested change would be the addition of an rng element of surgery and its steps. So how would this be done? Simple with my proposed changes to flavor text you can add in hints to show what would be the steps required to fix up the marine, this can also incorporate tools that are rarely used (FixOVein and drill) since now there are even more potential steps, this ends the wiki being the be all, end all for surgery, it actually becomes a challenging feat to become a well known surgeon on the server.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): N/A

[YungCuz]

I mean honestly this sounds nice but i'm worried surgeries may take longer if this was around. Sorry.

[Toroic]

We're at a point we can barely trust to have enough competent docs as is. Will making it more complex make them more skilled?

[freemysoul]

There is already a RNG on surgery as a whole, but it depends on where you are doing the surgery (Operating Table, Rollerbed, Table), Tools (Proper, Experimental RnD or Ghetto) and the state of the patient (Unconscious, Paincrit, Alive, Awake).

This also SOUNDS like a SEVERE nerf on the marines. Bare in mind, you NOT only got to survive, you have to get back to the sulaco, WAIT and then get surgery on you.

-1

[Ithalan]

In my experience, the part of medical that requires skill isn't know how to treat any single issue; it's keeping calm when medbay is being flooded and with patients, to quickly evaluate each and establish who should be treated first, who can even be saved, what treatment do they need and how much of it can wait and how much of it can't.

[Durper]

-1

I still die in medbay even with how simple the surgery system works, I'm worried that with a sudden change of it we'll have less Competent Doctors that what we'd usually have,

This would be fixe'd over time because of experience but it would eventually get to this discussion about how boring the system works and needs a change then we'd be in square 1 again.

[Jroinc1]

I would LOVE this. I would also be the only one who would love this... and I don't play doc enough to compensate for the baldies.
-1, sadly.

Additionally, I STRONGLY resent your implication that not using the advanced scanner is "metagaming". The advanced scanner is a potent tool, but I usually just use it to confirm my diagnoses, and usually skip it (and if I'm FoB doc, THAT'S NOT AN OPTION). You can ASK the patient where he was hit, if he has a broken skull, treat for brain AND eye damage, if he has a broken chest/groin, assume organ damage, if he's gasping, it's a collapsed lung, and the health analyzer shows broken extremities, internal bleeding, and brain damage.

These techniques, some of which you mentioned, separate the robust docs from the baldies, or the merely promoted medics.

[ZDashe]

As an experienced doc, I would definitely +1 this.

However, most of the rounds when I don't play as a doctor, I still see incompetent doctors who don't fix you up fully, or just take too long.

For our sanity and the other more casual players.. i'm gonna go -1. Surgery doesn't need to become more complicated. There are round where you have to improvise as a doctor, such as when power runs out, or when lower deck has been compromised, and even doing ghetto surgery in the escape pods. Those are the times that surgery probably won't be as "boring" and routine.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

I actually used to think the same way until apop popped into minichat one day sort saying doctor advance medical scanners which lead me to asking a few question via pm

Can* a field surgeon* preform chest surgery if they know what is wrong with a marine (ie marine was told they were hugged or another marine witnessed it occur,) would that field doctor be allowed to preform surgery on said patient*? I ask this one since I believe yesterday you popped in minichat saying something around if a field doctor was told what is wrong with a person they can operate on them unless it was the chest, then they would have to be sent up to the ship for such thing to be preformed.

A field doctor can perform minor surgeries if they know what's wrong. However, you might get yelled at if you setup an embryo removal factory. Our staff is still discussing how this would work, and we may end up just adding an additional step to remove embryos so we can separate it from removing shrapnel. For now, if someone is shot in the chest, you can remove their shrapnel (but not fix organs).

of course he also added this line at the end of the message

"Be advised, most of this is up to the handling staff. Especially admins, have the right to make individual rulings depending on the situation. so don't take this as 100% law."

and I believe previously on minichat he said something around "Doctors really only get bwoiked, if a complaint has been filed towards them" sort of why I put in "but most admins don't stick around medical to give a toss) in the original post.

Note: I did edit my original quote for grammatical corrections and you notice them with the *, and there are probably more errors in it but not seeing them at the moment

[solidfury7]

-1

A huge nerf to the marines by prolonging and creating a more difficult surgery system, making the role less accessible, which will likely fuck over marines in high pop.

[Snypehunter007]

BUMP

-1

[Surrealistik]

Why would you bump this?

-1

[Polkjm]

A sad -1 from me.

We don't want surgery to become more easy, because it would crush the heart of competent doctors, but we don't want surgery to become harder, because it would nerf marines and reduce the amount of competent doctors even further.

The real thing we need is a surgery system that can be mastered by many, but an experienced player would be able to complete surgeries really fast and efficiently, while a new player would struggle more but eventually make it.

This suggestion isn't far from that, so maybe we can get somewhere

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

Ok there is a clear misconception on this whole suggestion, so many people keep failing to see this (I admit I should make it more visible but it was in the desc of this suggestion), This suggestion was a companion piece to this http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.p ... ts#p102152. It was always meant to be attached to the hint system I suggested around the same time but suggestions should be separate. To be honest I had planned a 3rd proposed section to this suggestion line around revamping medical on talking about adding in a more complex drugs like synap but due to how panned these 2 were, people wanted to keep the status quo. So I'm not saying to be a dick add in random new steps, I was hinting at the idea of having like A B C D type of questions, so the surgeons have to read the flavor text (which rarely happens, they just look for it popping up) and choose the best course of action. For instance "You open -insert patient's name here- chest, you see their heart has shards of bones penetrating through the Pulmonary Artery" Its vague enough but provides the hint you need to remove the bone shard and fix the vein and have it ideally take around the same amount of time as the other 3 or how many other possibility there are. This isn't meant to be nerf but to change up how doctors have all the steps burned into their skulls since they are simple and linear. This all should take around the same time if you are a competent doctor or know how figure out a simple word puzzle and how to handle it. This is meant to add diversity in a system that currently has none, which is a huge drag and quite a boring element to all people who main doctors

[Polkjm]

-snip-

Oh alright. +1 to that, for the same reasons I stated in that other thread

[forwardslashN]

Medical, and likely surgery, as whole will be reworked at some point. What that will look like will likely depend on the state of the game then. This is denied for now.