Marine Mechs

[Jroinc1]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):Add a pair of modified Durands to the hangar roundstart for specs, and ONLY specs to use.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):Slows the marineswarm by providing them with a powerful, but slow SUPPORT PLATFORM, and MECHS (obligatory, sorry).

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

MARINE MECHS

This suggestion is designed to present a modified Durand as a viable choice for a marine SUPPORT PLATFORM that is balanced for both xenos AND marines. I normally play xeno, or a heavy technical role (MT, CE, MD, RSR...), so I'm coming at it from those angles. I tried to put more thought into it than DUR MECHS (not implying anything).

TL;DR- Marines get TWO AND ONLY TWO Durands as alternate spec choices. They start off weak, but with a moderately competent researcher, and cargo support/marines actually getting materials, can become absurdly strong SUPPORT platforms.
PROS- IMMUNE to most stuns.
VERY high health relative to marines.
Can be loaded out with an impressive amount of non-man portable weapons/equipment, some of which can one-shot T1's, and all of which don't require special ammo to be ordered.

CONS-MUCH slower than marines.
Dependent on limited battery, generally has to return ship-side for recharging.
Limited to FOUR items.
You're giving up a regular spec for this beast.
Moves EVEN SLOWER on rough terrain with a very low to low chance of "stunning" itself for 10 seconds.
Very vulnerable to multiple xenos (SUPPORT PLATFORM, not RAMBO-NATOR XENO DESTRUCTOR)

ACTUAL, FULL SUGGESTION

Marines start with a pair of modified Durands in the hangar, in a leetle-bitty "mech bay"
The Durands are selectable with a special "Mech Driver's Licence" ID, which is a possible spec item choice. Without the ID, they CANNOT be used and are pretty paperweights. Aliens won't have to worry about always dealing with 2 Durands in the hangar EERY round when they come up, unless 2 specs chose them and never got them destroyed/evacuated the planet.
More CANNOT be made.
They CAN be repaired in field, they CANNOT have their battery changed,they MUST be in a charging station to have components changed, and they CAN have recharging stations (Explicitly acidable) built planetside by research.

Battery life is designed to deploy from the Rasputin, walk to the caves and back, directly, twice. Obviously, if you're shooting, this diminishes. I'm going with a 10,000w cell unless given other numbers. ADDITIONALLY, battery life represents levels of various "non-replenishable" munitions, to abstract some annoying loading away.
Armor is altered to being able to deal with 10-15 ravager level slashes.
The occupant is immune to all stuns except for Queen screech and flashbangs.

HELP, I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP

Oh yeah. We aren't on flat terrain. We're in a jungle. For the purposes of the mech, I'm defining 2 "failure modes", 4 terrain types, and weeds.

STUMBLING is like getting caught in cobwebs for a human. Can't move for a sec, but you can try again almost instantly.
FALLING is a full stun, the sprite gets turned on it's side, and the mech can take no actions. The mech takes 10 ticks to get up from the fall. Do not take your mec out alone, or Young-Runner (420) will robust your ass WHEN you fall at the worst possible time.

Interior tile- Inside the domes, or shipboard. 0% chance of STUMBLING or FALLING per step. What they're designed for.
Sandy tile- Roads between the domes, and the terrain north of the river. 5% chance of STUMBLING, .1% chance of FALLING/step. Not ideal, but manageable.
Jungle tile- Any other non-water tile outside the domes. 10% chance of STUMBLING, 1% chance of FALLING/step. Why are you taking your mech over soft, wet soil?
River tile- Any water tile. 50% chance of STUMBLING, 10% chance of FALLING/step. WHY ARE YOU GOING OVER A SILTY RIVER BOTTOM WITH RUSHING WATER?
Weeds- Replaces any tile with a 6% chance of STUMBLING, and a 1% chance of FALLING. Those weeds look pretty tangly, probably get your escorts to clear it before you go in?

ROUNDSTART LOADOUT

The Durands start with 3 pieces of gear attached, and can mount up to 4 items total.
-Hydraulic Clamp- For "cargo" loading. totally never abused to fight hostile insurgents
-Modified Ultra Ac-2- Burst-fire mode, 3 round burst, rifle bullet damage, 30 round magazine, re-loading requires 10% of the mech's battery life.
-BACKUP APU- Aux power supply, provides one charge/tick to the mech battery, allowing it to slowly walk back, if it runs out of charge.

Additionally, the hangar "mech bay" starts with a Ranged Armor Booster module, an Internal Armor module, a HMG, and an Enhanced Targeting System that can be added at will by specs.

NON-MECH ITEMS

"Mech Driver's License"- Added to spec vendor, costs your spec token, whack a mech w/o a DNA-lock with it to destroy the license, clear all access restrictions, and dna-lock it to you. If you buy it, and both mechs have been taken, hit the spec vendor with it to destroy it and re-spawn a spec token.

Materials crate- Orderable by the RO, this series of 5 different crates contains 5 sheets apiece of either Gold, Silver, Diamond, Uranium, or Phoron (why would you get the last one?), and cost 100 points apiece. Pretty expensive and niche, but why not.

ADDITIONAL RESEARCHABLE/FINDABLE MECH ITEMS
WEAPONS
-FNX-99 Hades Carbine- Fires a single incendiary round, does rifle damage+fire. 10 round magazine, re-loading requires 15% of the mech's battery life. Requires materials from mining to make, AND alien research levels (for the fire-damage meta).
-HMG- Fires a 5-round burst, does higher damage than rifle-fire, 50 round magazine, re-loading takes 20% of the mech's battery life. Requires research, but no materials, can be made roundstart and one starts in the "mech bay".
-EXOSUIT AUTOCANNON- 3-round burst, does autocannon damage (but still only manually aimable), 30 round magazine, re-loading requires 20% of the mech's battery life. Requires mining materials to make.
-SRM-8 Missile rack- Fires a single, explosive missile, does damage equivalent to a grenade, AND stuns. SADAR it aint, but the stun'll still be pretty strong. 2-round magazine, re-loading takes a whopping 60% of battery life, so you get 4 shots, if you don't do anything else. Requires materials from mining to make.
-SOLARIS HEAVY LASER CANNON- HOLYSHIT AN ACTUAL LASER WHAT. Fires a single laser CANNON bolt for that delicious double-damage. But it comes at a cost. Even a mech's power supply is taxed by a space 1970's laser weapon. Each SHOT costs 10% of the mech's battery. Can you say "Glass cannon"? Requires mining materials, AND xeno research (for the burn-damage meta).
-Integrated flamer- It's an integrated flamer, works same as the hand-held flamer. Each burst uses 1% of the battery life, no re-arming. Needs xeno research, BUT no mining materials.
-MECH SWORD- It's a GIANT SWORD. DOUBLE DAMAGE OF THE MACHETE. No cost to use, good luck using this with your slow-ass speed... Needs xeno research (WHY ELSE would you put on a giant sword?).

DEFENSIVE ITEMS
-Armor-Booster Module (ranged)- Ups armor against ranged damage, real useful against FF, and marginal against spitter acid. Completely passive, no cost to use, does NOT need materials, makeable roundstart and one starts in the "mech bay".
-Armor-Booster Module (Close-combat)- Ups armor against melee hits, only really useful against xeno melee, but that's a pretty big hazard. Completely passive, no cost to use, does NOT need materials, requires xeno research (for the xeno-close-combat meta).
-Force-shield module- Makes the mech COMPLETELY IMMUNE to ANY DAMAGE while active. Uses 4% of the mech's power/tick, so you get 25 seconds of rampaging, then a young runner shreds it while you try and run-for-it on foot. Requires mining materials.
-Electronic Warfare Suite, Cockpit Polarizing Filters & Filtered Audio System- Provides the mech immunity to EMP's (REAL marginal), grants the mech all-access to any doors (real marginal), and makes the pilot immune to flashbangs AND the queens screech (the real reason you meta'ing scrubs want it). No power cost, completely passive, and requires mining minerals.
-Rough-Terrain Servomotor Upgrade- Halves the chance of the mech stumbling or falling. Completely passive and no cost, but requires mining minerals.
-Internal Armoring- Exosuit components can no longer be accidentally destroyed by attacking the suit (still takes regular damage. No power cost, passive, can be made roundstart and one starts in the "mech bay".

AUXILIARY ITEMS
-IMPROVED APU- Aux power supply, provides 3 charge/tick to the mech battery (3333.3 ticks to full charge, .03% full charge/tick). Makeable roundstart by researcher.
-Exosuit Energy Relay- Drains power FROM POWERED AREAS ONLY, not the middle of the jungle or slashed APCs, 5 charge/tick, needs mining material to make.
-Phoron Converter- Burns Phoron for power. Click on sheets to load them, each sheet provides 200 charge at 20/tick (2% per sheet, .2% per tick). Needs mining material to make.
-Exo-nuclear Reactor- Holds Uranium Sheets, generates power up to the amount held, max 30/tick. (.3% per tick) Never runs out, but must be ordered by cargo. 300 point cost, REAL expensive.
-Auxiliary Power Pack- Adds 5000w (50%) to the power supply of the mech. Can be stacked, but you only get 4 slots... Requires mining minerals.
-Enhanced Low-Light Systems- Gives the exosuit operator full night-vision. Costs .5% of mech power/tick to run, and requires mining materials to make.
-Enhanced Floodlight Systems- Ups the exosuits default lights to a 10 by 10 radius. Costs .01% of mech power/tick to run, requires mining materials to make. Help your squadmates out by being a slow, un-acidable beacon of light!
-Automated Repair Droid- Autorepair, 1% health/tick. Uses 1% battery/ tick, toggleable, abuse it and you'll get slashed to death regardless of health when the battery goes out. Requires materials to make.
-Enhanced Targeting Systems- Ups accuracy of all weapons, AND keeps any mech weapons from hitting ID-holders. Passive and toggleable, but costs .01% battery/tick to run. VERY important to have. Requires mining materials to make, one spawns roundstart.
-Enhanced Optical Systems- Can use for binocular view. No cost, DOES stack with night-vision, but takes up one of your 4 slots... Makeable roundstart.
NOT IN
Any sort of speed or turning upgrade. These will be slow as hell and awkward, it's their one real weakness.
Mech RCD. It's not intended to provide limitless metal spam.
Drill. Not designed for mining, use a pick.
Auto-firing weapons. Too hard to code, and real OP.
Other Standard SS13 mech equipment- Not relevant to mission at hand.

Thoughts?

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): A lot of this is just regular old mech code already in, just add the Durand spawn area roundstart, add the spec item, give Durand's 4 slots instead of 3, and re-name a bunch of sprites, alter damage values, and add a couple of new functions to old/unused sprites.
Hardest thing is adding in the STUMBLING/FALLING system, which really IS essential, so look at how the code for trying to move through spiderwebs works?

[Sarah_U.]

I'm good for +1'ing it. I browsed it quickly while doing things and this looks pretty thought out and could actually work somewhat.

Suggestion for how to acquire them would be pretty simple: Allow for a mech station (A 3x2 space) which requires the silver SPC token for use. If the SPC survives all the way to evac, those 3x2 spaces are opened and allows for SPCs to use the machines to defend- PROBLEM THOUGH, the recharge only works on the cargo area as the mech station gets its power drained to fuel the shuttles as it's meant for ground battle.

[Jroinc1]

I'm good for +1'ing it. I browsed it quickly while doing things and this looks pretty thought out and could actually work somewhat.

Suggestion for how to acquire them would be pretty simple: Allow for a mech station (A 3x2 space) which requires the silver SPC token for use. If the SPC survives all the way to evac, those 3x2 spaces are opened and allows for SPCs to use the machines to defend- PROBLEM THOUGH, the recharge only works on the cargo area as the mech station gets its power drained to fuel the shuttles as it's meant for ground battle.

Could you clarify what you mean? I have TWO Durands being spawned roundstart and a SPEC TOKEN being required to select it, which I think we agree on. As for the evac stuff... no. If you left the mechs as a spec and picked a different weapon, you don't get a free mech just cause xenos (Aliens shouldn't ALWAYS have to deal with 2 Durands EVERY time they Sulaco assault). As for the recharge... what? I was just going to put 2 normal stations near the hangar, plus a few equipment types for the mech/any others the RSR builds.

[Boltersam]

Well, how do I say this...



Hell to the yes. The game may be balanced towards the Aliens, but the Marines should have their own heavy artillery, that isn't a regular, vulnerable guy with a big gun. This is essentially a Marine T3, a slow, bulky, pondering lump of metal with guns strapped to it.

It's not going to massively skew the balance because of how screwed they'll be if they stumble of fall over while fighting or retreating, that means death!

And let's not forget, when the batteries die, when everything goes dark....



...There's only so long you can live.

+1.

EDIT: Yes, I'm doing this for the sword. No, you can't touch it.

[Jroinc1]

Well, how do I say this...



Hell to the yes. The game may be balanced towards the Aliens, but the Marines should have their own heavy artillery, that isn't a regular, vulnerable guy with a big gun. This is essentially a Marine T3, a slow, bulky, pondering lump of metal with guns strapped to it.

It's not going to massively skew the balance because of how screwed they'll be if they stumble of fall over while fighting or retreating, that means death!

And let's not forget, when the batteries die, when everything goes dark....



...There's only so long you can live.

Yup.
"It's dangerous to go alone, take YOUR SQUAD"

[Boltersam]

Yup.


"It's dangerous to go alone, take YOUR SQUAD"

"It's dangerous to go with your squad, take people who can aim!"

[Jroinc1]

"It's dangerous to go with your squad, take people who can aim!"

Which reminds me, the mech has NO CHANCE to dodge projectiles. You want COMPETENT squaddies, oor the ranged combat armor booster. Which one you think'll be easier to get?

[completelynewguy]

+1, only concern is that this will get autodenied because this is a suggestion about Marine mech units.

But hey, I'm all for mechanized units and combined arms tactics.

[Warnipple]

-1

No reason to make hanger defense easier.

[danmax67]

+1
how else can i yell japanese words i don't know while swinging a giant sword at aliens?

[forwardslashN]

Mechs have been brought up a bunch before. We're not actively working on them, but I guess this is possible in the future.

[Jroinc1]

-1

No reason to make hanger defense easier.

The marines DO NOT get 2 Durands automatically, they get the POSSIBILITY of 2 Durands, IF spec's trade in their spec weapons for the mech piloting ability.


These will likely get destroyed planetside. IF the marine specs CHOSE to get mechs, AND they BOTH retreated on the Rasp with their Mechs intact... well, that just seems like a case for MOTHER messages, something about "USE YOUR STOMPY DEATH MACHINES TO TAKE BACK THE GROUND MARINES...".

If specs do not take the mechs, THE MECHS ARE NOT PILOTABLE, EVEN if the Sulaco is being invaded. They just sit as fancy paperweights in the background.
Edit- Just as random standards can't take all the cool spec weps TOTALLY STILL IN THE SPEC VENDOR WHYYY

[Jroinc1]

Mechs have been brought up a bunch before. We're not actively working on them, but I guess this is possible in the future.

Fair enough, and I know this is beating a dead horse. I've just been thinking on this for a while, and once I thought I had a balanced approach, I decided to post it and see what people thought.

[Karmac]

I'm still trying to figure out which attatchment would be the easiest to powergame with, the anti-FF or the anti-Turtle Falls Over Simulator.

[Renomaki]

I myself lean more towards -1, not because it isn't a good idea though, but how it'll start a lot of fighting among marines and racing for the right to pilot mechs.

I honestly think it would be really cool to have some heavy armor support of some sort, something that'll give the marines confidence on the attack or defense and also instill fear in aliens, just as how aliens such as crushers, spitters and hunters do to marines. That, and having something that the aliens can't just hug to defeat would be nice for a change.

However, knowing players, the moment mechs become a thing, there is going to be so much rushing to get to the mechs first before the others, and the specs that don't get it will probably just bitch and moan and lose complete focus on the mission all because the other 2 specs got to the mechs first, building resentment and the risk of screwing over the mech users out of spite instead of helping them. Trust me, some people are serious assholes who probably would just go "fuck you got mine" if you have funkier toys than they do.

We already have so many people who compete for the spec role, making it THE most popular role on the game. You might not have a command staff or a full medical team, but damn it, you'll always have a full compliment of specs. I swear, I think I even seen people get jobs like BO and kill themselves shortly after because they didn't get to be a spec, it is THAT sought after.

Adding mechs would just make people fight over the job even more, and then have something else to fight over, which would tear apart already struggling squads as marines lose focus in the value of teamwork and duty, and just start arguing over who gets to ride in the stompy mechs for the round.

[Jroinc1]

I'm still trying to figure out which attatchment would be the easiest to powergame with, the anti-FF or the anti-Turtle Falls Over Simulator.

Well, the Anti-FF is pretty much MANDATORY, so yeah. The Anti-fall one only halves the chance, so not THAT OP.

[Karmac]

However, knowing players, the moment mechs become a thing, there is going to be so much rushing to get to the mechs first before the others, and the specs that don't get it will probably just bitch and moan and lose complete focus on the mission all because the other 2 specs got to the mechs first, building resentment and the risk of screwing over the mech users out of spite instead of helping them.

>Implying power-gamers that use the SADAR will ever stop. And that Apop will stop going fucking Sniper Spec.

[SPACEpotato1]

>Implying power-gamers that use the SADAR will ever stop. And that Apop will stop going fucking Sniper Spec.

Fuck we'll be lucky if Apop ever stops giving himself a minigun when he plays spec.

[Jroinc1]

>Implying power-gamers that use the SADAR will ever stop. And that Apop will stop going fucking Sniper Spec.

That's actually a thing I was thinking about, and honestly, I'd be more scared of a SADAR a-hole who keeps sprinting in and out with his one-shot win button, than a fully-kitted mech.

[Jroinc1]

I myself lean more towards -1, not because it isn't a good idea though, but how it'll start a lot of fighting among marines and racing for the right to pilot mechs.

I honestly think it would be really cool to have some heavy armor support of some sort, something that'll give the marines confidence on the attack or defense and also instill fear in aliens, just as how aliens such as crushers, spitters and hunters do to marines. That, and having something that the aliens can't just hug to defeat would be nice for a change.

However, knowing players, the moment mechs become a thing, there is going to be so much rushing to get to the mechs first before the others, and the specs that don't get it will probably just bitch and moan and lose complete focus on the mission all because the other 2 specs got to the mechs first, building resentment and the risk of screwing over the mech users out of spite instead of helping them. Trust me, some people are serious assholes who probably would just go "fuck you got mine" if you have funkier toys than they do.

We already have so many people who compete for the spec role, making it THE most popular role on the game. You might not have a command staff or a full medical team, but damn it, you'll always have a full compliment of specs. I swear, I think I even seen people get jobs like BO and kill themselves shortly after because they didn't get to be a spec, it is THAT sought after.

Adding mechs would just make people fight over the job even more, and then have something else to fight over, which would tear apart already struggling squads as marines lose focus in the value of teamwork and duty, and just start arguing over who gets to ride in the stompy mechs for the round.

Is this so much a problem with the suggestion, or with the general nature of marine players? I figure, if WHEN this does happen, and the mech user goes off alone/the squad leaves him/a disgruntled spec uses an anti-armor SADAR ON AN ACTUAL ARMORED VEHICULAR TARGET WHAT,it'll be sorted out rather quickly as the mech is destroyed by xenos, STICK WITH YOUR SQUAD!/the mech is destroyed by xenos, DON'T PISS OFF YOUR SQUAD!/the mech is destroyed by SADAR, adminhelp to ban the spec for grief.

[TopHatPenguin]

Imo I don't really think mechs would go well with cm from a lore perpsective ( Unless perhaps it was the Caterpillar P-5000 Work Loader which even then wouldn't make much sense deploying with a squad and is basically the ripley we have now ) or from a ic gameplay view.

Honestly I'm -1 on this, mechs really don't fit the feel of Cm at all, and all they accomplish is use more standard station sprites which cm is trying to distant themselves from in terms of visuals atleast.

Mechs probably will never fit the feel of Cm as in the lore there is literally only one type of mech possible and that's to load supplies.

[Jroinc1]

Imo I don't really think mechs would go well with cm from a lore perpsective ( Unless perhaps it was the Caterpillar P-5000 Work Loader which even then wouldn't make much sense deploying with a squad and is basically the ripley we have now ) or from a ic gameplay view.

Honestly I'm -1 on this, mechs really don't fit the feel of Cm at all, and all they accomplish is use more standard station sprites which cm is trying to distant themselves from in terms of visuals atleast.

Mechs probably will never fit the feel of Cm as in the lore there is literally only one type of mech possible and that's to load supplies.

From a lore and IC perspective, this is to give the marines an armored element for fighting insurgents with heavy weapons and in urban areas (Clearing MG nests and the like). Additionally, I'd rather see 2 big stompy mechs than 2 a-holes specs SPRINTING around with SADARS v.s. squishy targets.

Also, I'd be fine with a tank or a working APC instead, but that would be HIDEOUSLY difficult to code and probably unbalanced.

As for the sprites and re-using code, why not make it as easy to accomplish as possible?
No sprite work needs to be done for this AT ALL, and all that would be needed to adapt the regular mech code would be adding an extra equipment slot, changing the damage values, ammo capacity, and re-load cost of some weapons, editing how the various mech generators work (SHOULD just require changing numbers), and tossing a coupla new attachments which mostly re-use pre-existing code (Smartgun code for anti-FF, binocular/boiler code for enhanced optics, that sort of thing).
The only part I think will take significant work is the falling system, which probably could borrow from spiderweb code.

[TopHatPenguin]

From a lore and IC perspective, this is to give the marines an armored element for fighting insurgents with heavy weapons and in urban areas (Clearing MG nests and the like). Additionally, I'd rather see 2 big stompy mechs than 2 a-holes specs SPRINTING around with SADARS v.s. squishy targets.

Also, I'd be fine with a tank or a working APC instead, but that would be HIDEOUSLY difficult to code and probably unbalanced.

As for the sprites and re-using code, why not make it as easy to accomplish as possible?
No sprite work needs to be done for this AT ALL, and all that would be needed to adapt the regular mech code would be adding an extra equipment slot, changing the damage values, ammo capacity, and re-load cost of some weapons, editing how the various mech generators work (SHOULD just require changing numbers), and tossing a coupla new attachments which mostly re-use pre-existing code (Smartgun code for anti-FF, binocular/boiler code for enhanced optics, that sort of thing).
The only part I think will take significant work is the falling system, which probably could borrow from spiderweb code.

I still stand by my point that mechs really don't fit in with Cm at all, the ripley is already an eyesore (well for me atleast) as it's just the standard ss13 sprite. Mechs really don't have a place to fit in as cm is mainly about being a marine in a squad and fighting it out against the xenos with rp and I really feel that adding combat mechs is just unnecessary and would ruin the atmosphere in cm.

[Joe4444]

question,what if all 4 specs pick the Durand?

[Jroinc1]

I still stand by my point that mechs really don't fit in with Cm at all, the ripley is already an eyesore (well for me atleast) as it's just the standard ss13 sprite. Mechs really don't have a place to fit in as cm is mainly about being a marine in a squad and fighting it out against the xenos with rp and I really feel that adding combat mechs is just unnecessary and would ruin the atmosphere in cm.

Fair enough. I disagree, but I can understand. My suggestion is meant to be a support platform for marines and not a stand-alone thing.