Minimum SADAR Range

[SPACEpotato1]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Basically, like the boiler-bombard, there should be a minimum range for the SADAR - Depending on what round is loaded, if possible

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Well, it benefits the aliens a bit, and can also benefit the muhreens, (Possibly, that sadar FF)

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Alright, so, pretty simple.

HE Round - 4 tiles, so you don't rip yourself, and other marines near you

AP Round - 2 tiles, so xenos/preds can't be point blanked by a guy with a rocket launcher

WP Round - 1 tile, arguably not as insta-kill-ey as the others, so no real need for too much of a limit

If it's not possible to specialise based on the round, I think all rounds should have a 3 tile minimum.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Spooky coder magic

[Jroinc1]

+1. Probably won't change TOO much, but less rocket launcher PRESSED TO THE TARGET would be nice.

[Eenkogneeto]

Tentative -1 for HE/WP because muh rocket jumps
+1 if limited to AT (Which should really need to be able to get some flight time to OHKO you, Especially since it lacks backblast.) Honestly i load AT to oneshot hunters who wont leave me alone and rarely otherwise since its so 'Close range or dont bother' most of the time.

[Jeser]

Makes sense, has advantages and removes pointblank with SADAR. Totally +1.

[Jay Burns]

But what about mah point blank SADAR FF???

Seriously +1

[SPACEpotato1]

Just bumping this real quick, ;-;

[RadiantFlash]

Um... Please no?
I can't count the number of times, I've had to fire the sadar at an alien rushing at me, and short range sadar use is sorta nessicary for those times.
Limiting friendly fire at the cost of limiting short range firing. I'll pass, please. -1.

[SPACEpotato1]

Um... Please no?
I can't count the number of times, I've had to fire the sadar at an alien rushing at me, and short range sadar use is sorta nessicary for those times.
Limiting friendly fire at the cost of limiting short range firing. I'll pass, please. -1.

Huh. I see.

Let's think of a scenario, furthermore, a likely one.

So, an alien is hiding somewhere (In those "cult domes" in the cave, with the thing in the middle that can't be exploded or shot through), and the SADAR spec runs in, ALONE, as the only person there. Now, the alien is a boiler, for the sake of instakilling, and the boiler moves one tile to the right, sprays acid, and suddenly

INSTA DEATH

Now, imagine you're that alien, and the SADAR spec just shot you, not more than 3 tiles away, and you instantly die.

I've seen this happen to people, and even experienced it myself.

Now, let's not forget that firing a fucking rocket launcher at something (approximately) 3 metres (1 tile = 1 metre), is incredibly fucking stupid. Even with AP.

Second of all, if you have an alien running at you, and you have NOBODY to hep you, well, I'll be honest. But you deserve to fucking die (In game, of course).
This could actually improve squad cohesion, as it makes the SADAR spec rely on their squad members, as ANY spec should (Yes, even B18).
In fact, you bring up a good point. Bar the "long" reload times, a SADAR could easily go rambo and take down a large number of aliens, from T1 to T3, all the way through.

The solution doesn't lie in not limiting an item just because it works better for you.
It's to stick with your squad and not go rambo.

This doesn't mean, however, that you lose ALL of your instakill ability, far from it.
You just have to be more careful with it, as any person running around with a rocket launcher in one hand should.

[Egorkor]

-1, no. I'm going to put it bluntly - the SADAR had underwent a series of changes that fucked it over and then it was restored from the shattered pieces of shite it was, we don't need it fucked with again. It's not broken.
More bluntly - get your fucking hands offa the rockets, fuck right off, go suggest something about OTHER spec weapons that are not currently favoured due to being worse.

[RadiantFlash]

Huh. I see.

Let's think of a scenario, furthermore, a likely one.

So, an alien is hiding somewhere (In those "cult domes" in the cave, with the thing in the middle that can't be exploded or shot through), and the SADAR spec runs in, ALONE, as the only person there. Now, the alien is a boiler, for the sake of instakilling, and the boiler moves one tile to the right, sprays acid, and suddenly

INSTA DEATH

Now, imagine you're that alien, and the SADAR spec just shot you, not more than 3 tiles away, and you instantly die.

I've seen this happen to people, and even experienced it myself.

Now, let's not forget that firing a fucking rocket launcher at something (approximately) 3 metres (1 tile = 1 metre), is incredibly fucking stupid. Even with AP.

Second of all, if you have an alien running at you, and you have NOBODY to hep you, well, I'll be honest. But you deserve to fucking die (In game, of course).
This could actually improve squad cohesion, as it makes the SADAR spec rely on their squad members, as ANY spec should (Yes, even B18).
In fact, you bring up a good point. Bar the "long" reload times, a SADAR could easily go rambo and take down a large number of aliens, from T1 to T3, all the way through.

The solution doesn't lie in not limiting an item just because it works better for you.
It's to stick with your squad and not go rambo.

This doesn't mean, however, that you lose ALL of your instakill ability, far from it.
You just have to be more careful with it, as any person running around with a rocket launcher i (n one hand should.

1) Alright First off, Don't EVEN bring real life distances into this. You can see more then 8 metres away in real life (Tile view limit in ss13), So don't even TRY to use that as a stupid excuse.

2)If a ravager runs at you, and then charges, It doesn't matter that the marines are there. It can A: get away after, or B: Cripple you regardless of it's death. Thats down a specialist with a anti-t3/ancient xeno weapon (Temporarily or permenately) of which marines only get 4 of those types of people, /ever/. Xenos get a far more t3s, and despite the short respite between each lost one, they always get more.

It wouldn't improve cohesion at all, and sadar spec's Can't rambo anymore. That old idea needs to die. It USED to be able to be ramboed with. Not anymore. If two xenos worked together, no rambo sadar spec, would /ever/ rambo, because they can't.
The sadar, requires a reloading time, which lasts longer then the stun time of the rockets. Even BARING this, (as you said) you only have three HE rockets that are area stuns now, and the 2 ap rockets have to be a direct hit (far god damn harder then you might think), and the phosphorus rockets don' stun at all. Requistions can supply more ammo, but 85% of the time, they aren't competent enough to do so, unless you go back to the sulaco, and physically grovel at their feet.


The best use of the sadar, isn't to "instakill", fuck no. It's main usage, is dealing hard damage to armored targets with AP, or Stunning clumped up aliens/singled t3s so other marines can follow up, and kill it. Judging from your own words, implying the sadar is a god-weapon, You've never even USED the thing, and are pretty wrong.

In that same vein, Why is it terrible for marines to rambo, and yet aliens get free pass for it? Xenos that work together, will absolutely destroy the marines day, but so many times I can't even count, a ton of the marines kills are to lone aliens, trying to attack the marines.

[SPACEpotato1]

1) Alright First off, Don't EVEN bring real life distances into this. You can see more then 8 metres away in real life (Tile view limit in ss13), So don't even TRY to use that as a stupid excuse.

2)If a ravager runs at you, and then charges, It doesn't matter that the marines are there. It can A: get away after, or B: Cripple you regardless of it's death. Thats down a specialist with a anti-t3/ancient xeno weapon (Temporarily or permenately) of which marines only get 4 of those types of people, /ever/. Xenos get a far more t3s, and despite the short respite between each lost one, they always get more.

It wouldn't improve cohesion at all, and sadar spec's Can't rambo anymore. That old idea needs to die. It USED to be able to be ramboed with. Not anymore. If two xenos worked together, no rambo sadar spec, would /ever/ rambo, because they can't.
The sadar, requires a reloading time, which lasts longer then the stun time of the rockets. Even BARING this, (as you said) you only have three HE rockets that are area stuns now, and the 2 ap rockets have to be a direct hit (far god damn harder then you might think), and the phosphorus rockets don' stun at all. Requistions can supply more ammo, but 85% of the time, they aren't competent enough to do so, unless you go back to the sulaco, and physically grovel at their feet.


The best use of the sadar, isn't to "instakill", fuck no. It's main usage, is dealing hard damage to armored targets with AP, or Stunning clumped up aliens/singled t3s so other marines can follow up, and kill it. Judging from your own words, implying the sadar is a god-weapon, You've never even USED the thing, and are pretty wrong.

In that same vein, Why is it terrible for marines to rambo, and yet aliens get free pass for it? Xenos that work together, will absolutely destroy the marines day, but so many times I can't even count, a ton of the marines kills are to lone aliens, trying to attack the marines.

1st point would be valid if I brought real life distances, it was just to give you a rough idea. Nobody fires a rocket launcher 3 metres away. You can shoot off screen, just click the edge of the screen and rest in peace.

You need to explain why it can't improve cohesion, so I'll wait for an explanation. I've seen plenty of rounds with competent RO (Those are a lot more competent and common during high pop). "Hard damage to armoured targets with AP"

Hard damage which can instantly kill a T3 if you run up to it and click one button.

I skipped point 2 because I found that annoying, let's go back.
If a ravager runs at you, and then charges. You, once again, deserve to die for getting within the range of a ravager. If you're so slow, that you don't realise the big red thing on the screen running at you until it's TWO TILES AWAY, then you deserve to be decapitated by said ravager. It DOES matter that the marines are there, because, as hard as it is to believe, the ravager isn't some huge ass bullet-proof xeno. I've critted ravagers that were on half health from ONE shot of a BUCKSHOT round, of more than FIVE tiles away. Ravagers are hit and run at heart, your squad should be protecting you, if they are not, you will die.

Even you agree that this is the case.

I'm not asking for a 7 tile limit to the SADAR, this is a 3 tile MAXIMUM limit, which removes point blank bullshit.
Hell, you have a minimum 2 tile limit. That means you can hit anything 3 tiles and further.
You will still be able to kill T3s, you will still be able to "Stun clumped up aliens so other marines can follow up and kill THEM", I don't think the SADAR is a god-weapon. My personal favourite is actually the smartgun.
I'm sorry I didn't see your degree in SADAR operation, but I think it's a bit shitty that people can point blank and receive no respite despite the fact it's a POINT BLANK SHOT from rocket launcher.

Again, just to make it clear. This isn't intended to NERF the SADAR, but rather balance it ever so slightly and prevent (some) misclicks from killing you and your fellow marines, along with a little bit more skill involved in it.

[RadiantFlash]

1st point would be valid if I brought real life distances, it was just to give you a rough idea. Nobody fires a rocket launcher 3 metres away. You can shoot off screen, just click the edge of the screen and rest in peace.

You need to explain why it can't improve cohesion, so I'll wait for an explanation. I've seen plenty of rounds with competent RO (Those are a lot more competent and common during high pop). "Hard damage to armoured targets with AP"

Hard damage which can instantly kill a T3 if you run up to it and click one button.

I skipped point 2 because I found that annoying, let's go back.
If a ravager runs at you, and then charges. You, once again, deserve to die for getting within the range of a ravager. If you're so slow, that you don't realise the big red thing on the screen running at you until it's TWO TILES AWAY, then you deserve to be decapitated by said ravager. It DOES matter that the marines are there, because, as hard as it is to believe, the ravager isn't some huge ass bullet-proof xeno. I've critted ravagers that were on half health from ONE shot of a BUCKSHOT round, of more than FIVE tiles away. Ravagers are hit and run at heart, your squad should be protecting you, if they are not, you will die.

Even you agree that this is the case.

I'm not asking for a 7 tile limit to the SADAR, this is a 3 tile MAXIMUM limit, which removes point blank bullshit.
Hell, you have a minimum 2 tile limit. That means you can hit anything 3 tiles and further.
You will still be able to kill T3s, you will still be able to "Stun clumped up aliens so other marines can follow up and kill THEM", I don't think the SADAR is a god-weapon. My personal favourite is actually the smartgun.
I'm sorry I didn't see your degree in SADAR operation, but I think it's a bit shitty that people can point blank and receive no respite despite the fact it's a POINT BLANK SHOT from rocket launcher.

Again, just to make it clear. This isn't intended to NERF the SADAR, but rather balance it ever so slightly and prevent (some) misclicks from killing you and your fellow marines, along with a little bit more skill involved in it.

Phosphorus rockets and He rockets, will blow up, where you click. Only AP rockets will continue off screen. You have a max range of 8 tiles, andforcing a limit to fire at 3 minimum, means you only have 5 meters effectively for firing it. It's just not a very good thing to compare to real life in general.

Ap rockets deal hard damage, but won't instantly kill a t3, unless it's an AP rocket, and even then, thats only the squishest of t3s that'll die. They won't always be are full health sure, but most sadar users won't wait and will just try to shoot them at first sight, because they don't realise waiting is better.

As for ranges of t3 confrontations, You assume we're fighting where you can see 8 tiles away, always. That is rarely the case, unless your in the barrens, or a long hallway like the nexus.
A majority of the time, the alien can hide behind brush, and ambush you, quite easily. Buckshot, is a the epitome of rngjesus. I've seen it two shot crushers before, and othertimes, rarely damage them much at all, despite shooting them in the back/sides.

As for the limit, It's limited by the fact that you can't shoot off screen. Only AP rockets will continue onwards. removing three of those tiles, means sadar users only get an effective range between five tiles, and it'd be absolutely useless in a lot of situations.

Any attempt to directly pointblank an alien, as in 1 tile away, will end up putting the rocketeer into crit. Sure they can do it, but it royally fucks them up, and they won't be able to do much more before collapsing. But, sometimes, you're desperate. You're being over-run and you have next to no choice, because the alien is using you as a shield from the other marines bullets. In that situation, pointblanking, and critting and even pprobably killing yourself might be needed.

Actual point blanking aliens is incredibly rare, as far as I have seen.

I don't claim to know everything about the sadar, or be the best whatsoever, but I know more then the average chucklefuck marine atleast.

[SPACEpotato1]

Phosphorus rockets and He rockets, will blow up, where you click. Only AP rockets will continue off screen. You have a max range of 8 tiles, andforcing a limit to fire at 3 minimum, means you only have 5 meters effectively for firing it. It's just not a very good thing to compare to real life in general.

Ap rockets deal hard damage, but won't instantly kill a t3, unless it's an AP rocket, and even then, thats only the squishest of t3s that'll die. They won't always be are full health sure, but most sadar users won't wait and will just try to shoot them at first sight, because they don't realise waiting is better.

As for ranges of t3 confrontations, You assume we're fighting where you can see 8 tiles away, always. That is rarely the case, unless your in the barrens, or a long hallway like the nexus.
A majority of the time, the alien can hide behind brush, and ambush you, quite easily. Buckshot, is a the epitome of rngjesus. I've seen it two shot crushers before, and othertimes, rarely damage them much at all, despite shooting them in the back/sides.

As for the limit, It's limited by the fact that you can't shoot off screen. Only AP rockets will continue onwards. removing three of those tiles, means sadar users only get an effective range between five tiles, and it'd be absolutely useless in a lot of situations.

Any attempt to directly pointblank an alien, as in 1 tile away, will end up putting the rocketeer into crit. Sure they can do it, but it royally fucks them up, and they won't be able to do much more before collapsing. But, sometimes, you're desperate. You're being over-run and you have next to no choice, because the alien is using you as a shield from the other marines bullets. In that situation, pointblanking, and critting and even pprobably killing yourself might be needed.

Actual point blanking aliens is incredibly rare, as far as I have seen.

I don't claim to know everything about the sadar, or be the best whatsoever, but I know more then the average chucklefuck marine atleast.

First of all, I said 3 MAXIMUM, not 3 MINIMUM. There's a difference and the difference Is large.
"AP rockets deal hard damage...Unless it's an AP rocket..."
Uhh....A bit confusing, but alright. An AP rocket has the ability to knock out about half a T3s health. It can instantly kill boilers at a close enough range.
I'm pretty sure the AP rocket does more damage the close you are, but that was simply my observation.
As for the crit due to pointblank, Of course that would apply to HE and WP. But AP doesn't, as far as I know.

As for the T3 confrontations, It's still your responsibility to take care not to be such a large target. As a specialist, you're meant to hang back or in the middle of your squad, that way you're constantly surrounded by your team mates. As for buckshot, RNG jesus with buckshot applies only to crushers and queens. That's literally it.

[Casany]

-1, aliens have their crusher stop, hugger decap and queen screech, and an instant stun called a face hugger. We have the SADAR. Unless you make let's say, runners slower so they can't hugger charge the SADAR, this is a no-no

[Jeser]

-1, aliens have their crusher stop, hugger decap and queen screech, and an instant stun called a face hugger. We have the SADAR. Unless you make let's say, runners slower so they can't hugger charge the SADAR, this is a no-no

This ^ Aliens have many insta-stun decap things. Marines have only mines (which are static) and SADAR.

[Jroinc1]

This ^ Aliens have many insta-stun decap things. Marines have only mines (which are static) and SADAR.

Also grenades (research and standard), egrills (also static), and I believe cleaning grenades (if that's not fixed?).
Additionally, don't tasers stun aliens for like a single tick? I swear I've seen it happen.

[Jeser]

Also grenades (research and standard), egrills (also static), and I believe cleaning grenades (if that's not fixed?).
Additionally, don't tasers stun aliens for like a single tick? I swear I've seen it happen.

If alien was blind+deaf+slow enough to get hit by grenade, he deserved it, like that SADAR user with Ravager. I, honestly, always try to not use research grenades, because it's usually ends in FF, rather than killing aliens. I didn't see egrills... yeah, right, since devs removed shoot-through-grills feature. I think, cleanin grenades work only on marines. Dunno about tasers.

But, back on topic. I can understand some reasons why this suggestion was made, but I don't like it as whole anyway. Neutral/-1

[Jroinc1]

If alien was blind+deaf+slow enough to get hit by grenade, he deserved it, like that SADAR user with Ravager. I, honestly, always try to not use research grenades, because it's usually ends in FF, rather than killing aliens. I didn't see egrills... yeah, right, since devs removed shoot-through-grills feature. I think, cleanin grenades work only on marines. Dunno about tasers.

But, back on topic. I can understand some reasons why this suggestion was made, but I don't like it as whole anyway. Neutral/-1

Just pointing it out.

[kastion]

Just make sadar instakill every marine close to the explosion and then it will be fair that they can point blank aliens with it.

[Egorkor]

Just make sadar instakill every marine close to the explosion and then it will be fair that they can point blank aliens with it.

if you didn't know, HE shells instantly crit you and AP outright kill you.

[SPACEpotato1]

-1, aliens have their crusher stop, hugger decap and queen screech, and an instant stun called a face hugger. We have the SADAR. Unless you make let's say, runners slower so they can't hugger charge the SADAR, this is a no-no

We're not removing the SADAR.

I'm not going to suggest removing the SADAR. That is a fucking retarded suggestion.

Using rockets on a runner is stupid anyway.

At least queens can't run at the speed of a marine.

[qDan]

I think 3-4 tile for HE and 1 for other types will be enough. +1

Just make sadar instakill every marine close to the explosion and then it will be fair that they can point blank aliens with it.

Only after Boilers acid will start hurt another aluems

[Jeser]

I think 3-4 tile for HE and 1 for other types will be enough. +1

Only after Boilers acid will start hurt another aluems

Yep, this seems fair.

[kastion]

I think 3-4 tile for HE and 1 for other types will be enough. +1

Only after Boilers acid will start hurt another aluems

Ok thats fair, as long as you let me just walk out of Sadar rockets like you can boilers acid. Boilers acid literally does nothing but area denial unless you suck.

[Jeser]

Ok thats fair, as long as you let me just walk out of Sadar rockets like you can boilers acid. Boilers acid literally does nothing but area denial unless you suck.

It paincrits you if you get on tile with gas for more than two seconds. If you in paincrit get under another gas attack, it's instadeath, like what happened to me when I was smartgunner and tried to save a marine.