Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Locked
User avatar
username123
Registered user
Posts: 285
Joined: 08 Feb 2016, 06:45

Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by username123 » 24 Sep 2016, 13:34

Your Byond Key:Locoloco3001

Your Character Name:I was playing that round as Zion Reighner

Their Byond key:Slc97

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results):

9:30 pm more or less. (and hour and 20 minutes ago more or less)

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken:

Staff code of conduct that says "Preserve the RP and enjoyment of the server", specifically the part that says "Do not try to heavily influence the game unless it is for very good reasoning such as for an event, a player purposefully holding up the game, dishing out punishment for rule breaking (Examples: a commander killed a marine unjustly, a squad of marines are killing other marines for no reason, a queen is slashing every host known to man, aliens have stacked too many huggers) or other such things"

Description of the incident:

While i was dressed and walking to req to get attachments and ray was in front of me, someone throws soap to Ray Dubi to make him slip, he slips and when i keep walking i see Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper laughing, at this point i think that she threw the soap at ray to make him slip, 10 seconds after, ally drops her id on the floor and i take it, throwing it to Ray to see what he does with it (i threw it at him to see if he was going to do something with it because of the fact that ally made him slip with soap), and in fact, ray does something with it, he takes it an throws it outside of the line, forcing ally to move from the line to take her id, Ally gets out of the line to pick her id and when she returns, she pushes me outside of the line taking my place, i push her back to take my place back and she pushes me again, then she drags me and throws me to the window of harming me, when she does that, i grab her again, but this time i upgrade my grab to disarm her (using the disarm intent, not the kill intent) to make her stop, then i get pm'd by Casany (a mentor) telling me to stop fighting at the RO line and to stop Choking Allyssa, i tell him that she started all this and that it's an ic issue, i also tell him that im not trying to kill her, then Slc97 get pm's me telling me that it's improper escalation and that people in real life don't strangle other people because another person pushes you.

Let's stop for a moment here, in real life, if you push another person that is waiting in a line to get something, the person that started pushing the other person is assaulting that other person, and if you are getting assaulted and throwed at a window for that, you have all the right to defend yourself, either by punching that person, or doing what i was doing, choking her to make her stop, so, let's continue.

We keep arguing, and while we are, the CL comes in and uses anesthetic on me, pushes me back of the line and while im unconcious, alyssa comes back and slams my face onto the table of engineering, fair game, it's an ic issue between me and her (i don't know why the CL was carrying anesthetics, but well, that's for another report). When this whole thing ends, Slc97 tell me that he's adding a note to me for improper escalation and that next time i will be banned, noice.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

Someone throwing soap to ray and ally laughing a second after:

Image

Me throwing Ally id to Ray and then Ray throwing the ID outside of the line, and then ally pushing me and throwing me outside of the line:

Image

More logs of Ally pushing me, and i pushing her back, also, notice the "your armor absorbs the blow", this is when she threws me to the window:

Image

Logs of Casany talking to me, logs of me pushing ally and ally pushing me:

Image

More logs of ahelp, and me grabbing ally, also the logs of someone using anesthetics on me:

Image

Me explaining casany that i don't have any intent to kill her:

and asking him to explain to me why he thinks it's umproper escalation:

Image

Slc97 ahelps me, and you know how it ends:

Image

How you would punish the accused:

Just tell him not to do it again, and remove my note, it was an IC issue that could have ended when the CL used anesthetics on me.

User avatar
Feweh
Donor
Donor
Posts: 4870
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 19:34
Byond: Feweh

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by Feweh » 24 Sep 2016, 13:47

There is nothing wrong with the note you received.

As per APOP's request, we are cracking down on ROUND-START shenanigans... ie; Stupid Fights, improper escalations etc.
While what you did wasn't ban worthy, it did warrant a staff message to calm down and relax.

A note is appropriate as staff members MUST add a note anytime they speak to a player.
Granted if this happened again shortly after, you'd probably be banned for continuous early round shit behaviour.

You really need to relax, as this is the 3rd 2nd staff report you've made with no protocols or abuse found from any staff member.
Please read the rules and start taking responsibility for your actions in the future.

User avatar
slc97
Vice Host
Vice Host
Posts: 1004
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 11:48
Location: Florida

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by slc97 » 24 Sep 2016, 14:04

[09:55:32]ATTACK: Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy) has thrown Zion Reighner (locoloco3001) from <font color='#6b5d00'>tile at 185, 163, 3 in area the Sulaco Cargo Office</font> with the target <font color='#6b4400'>tile at 186, 161, 3 in area the Sulaco Cargo Office</font> (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=185;Y=163;Z=3'>JMP</a>)
[09:55:34]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:55:39]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:55:43]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:55:46]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:55:47]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:55:48]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:55:52]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:55:53]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:55:56]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:55:58]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:55:59]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:56:00]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:01]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:56:02]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:03]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:04]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:05]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:06]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:07]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) disarmed Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper (completelynewguy)
[09:56:11]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:12]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:14]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:18]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:20]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:22]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:24]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:26]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)
[09:56:26]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) grabbed the neck of Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper)
[09:56:42]ATTACK: Locoloco3001/(Zion Reighner) strangled (kill intent) Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper)
[09:57:05]ATTACK: Completelynewguy/(Alyssa 'Ally' Cowper) disarmed Zion Reighner (locoloco3001)

There you go. That is the entire situation leading up to you strangling her and then after she still only disarmed you.

User avatar
username123
Registered user
Posts: 285
Joined: 08 Feb 2016, 06:45

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by username123 » 24 Sep 2016, 14:09

Feweh wrote:There is nothing wrong with the note you received.

As per APOP's request, we are cracking down on ROUND-START shenanigans... ie; Stupid Fights, improper escalations etc.
While what you did wasn't ban worthy, it did warrant a staff message to calm down and relax.

A note is appropriate as staff members MUST add a note anytime they speak to a player.
Granted if this happened again shortly after, you'd probably be banned for continuous early round shit behaviour.

You really need to relax, as this is the 3rd 2nd staff report you've made with no protocols or abuse found from any staff member.
Please read the rules and start taking responsibility for your actions in the future.
Why was i the one that needed to "calm down and relax" while Ally started this whole thing, i know that i was the first one taking the ID that she trew on the floor, but it was justified, Ray took the id that i threw to him, and he threw it outside of the Req line for a good reason (to get some sort of "revenge" because ally slipped him), And then ally starts to get physical with me and we fight, why do you label what i did as "shitty" behavior when i was just defending myself and my place in the RO line because she started this whole thing, and last question is, why it was improper escalation?, we were arguing when the event occured, then she started to push me and throwing me to the window, i push her back, and then i grab her with the intention to make her stop because she assaulted me in the first place, and when this whole ic issue ends, im not only the one that has to "pay for the broken plates" by me being unconcious, my head mangled due to ally slamming my face onto a table, but i also get punished oocly by a staff member adding a note to me due to improper escalation, what was i suppose to do ic, i had to tell ally "Ok ally you can steal my place of the REQ line, im also ok with you pushing me and throwing me to onto a window, everything is alright"
Last edited by username123 on 24 Sep 2016, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Feweh
Donor
Donor
Posts: 4870
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 19:34
Byond: Feweh

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by Feweh » 24 Sep 2016, 14:11

username123 wrote: Why was i the one that needed to "calm down and relax" while Ally started this whole thing, "

Because she disarmed you and you decided it was appropriate to choke a fellow marine out.

User avatar
username123
Registered user
Posts: 285
Joined: 08 Feb 2016, 06:45

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by username123 » 24 Sep 2016, 14:23

Feweh wrote:
Because she disarmed you and you decided it was appropriate to choke a fellow marine out.

Have you ever been in a fight in real life? because i have, and a very effective way to stop a fight is by doing this for a while until the person gets weak enough to stop messing with you, this is exactly what i was doing in game:

Image

I know this can kill a person in real life and in the game too, but it doesn't mean that it will automatically kill a person by doing this grab, and i was not doing it do kill her (i pmed the staff that i had no intention to kill her, i just wanted to make her stop), but to make her stop, i know i could have punched her to start a fight that would have escalated in the req line by a lot of people fighting each other, but i decided to just grab her to make her stop and she did while i was doing it, but i could not talk to her due to two staff members ahelping me and then a CL using anesthetics on me.

User avatar
Toroic
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1045
Joined: 25 Sep 2015, 04:05

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by Toroic » 24 Sep 2016, 14:45

I'm curious what the MPs were doing when this was occuring instead of their jobs breaking up the fight.

My understanding is that escalation is

1) Disarm
2) Fists/grabs
3) Melee weapons
4) Guns

And the rule is that you can't escalate one step beyond what the other person is doing. If marines are fist-fighting and marine A pulls a knife, that is acceptable escalation as would marine B pulling a gun after A tries to stab them.

From the rules:
Examples that are NOT Griefing:
Two marines get into a fight over something and start throwing punches at each other.
Two consenting marines want to roleplay a situation that ends with them attacking or killing each other. Ahelps ahead of time would be best, as you'll likely get notified by an Admin at some point when the combat logs pop up.
A distraught Survivor fearfully shoots at an approaching marine and runs away.
This was two consenting marines having IC conflict in the RO line. Round start disruption gets excessive in many rounds, but that is a separate issue.

To me this appears to be proper escalation, with punches and grabs being in the same category and only one step removed from disarming.

A note should be added about getting in a fight at roundstart if the goal is to limit that in the future, but I don't see evidence of improper escalation.
"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you..."

Xenos Vult

User avatar
JDresdin
Registered user
Posts: 54
Joined: 05 Mar 2016, 02:46

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by JDresdin » 24 Sep 2016, 15:35

Toroic wrote:I'm curious what the MPs were doing when this was occuring instead of their jobs breaking up the fight.
Stumbled on this thread randomly while killing time browsing forums and because I remember the exchange, being there at the time (as Dresdin Farsyde). To answer your question, MP's were probably trying to find lethal guns in their lockers or drinking paint thinner somewhere, none were at RO.

I'm only posting to say as a general rule I'd be happy if all instigators in RO fights were insta banned as the fights are always dumb/meta, have a tendancy to escalate delaying the entire marine team, and tend to piss off the RO's turning them sour and unhelpful. Seeing as that won't happen though I will just mention: Both were being shits by fighting in line, but Ally neatly tossed him out with little effort, and this is after he fucked with allys ID (which is a big strike against him already if I've read rules correctly). You should have taken the shame of the lesson, Zion, and gone to the back. Instead you kept at it and clumsily continued on, feeding right into Allys plan of getting choked out by a sweaty marine. Double shame.

Shorter version is: if you want to IC fight or borderline ERP, gtfo out of the goddamn RO line.

edits: quick edit for any of the simple childrens who may read this. choking out a person irl is not an effective tool to de-escalate a fight, contrary to the above poster or what you may have learned in movies, or your weekend karate/self defense 'I dont know you' class. It is a good way to get stabbed, have your ribs broken, be bricked to the back of the head by their friend, or be charged with manslaughter however. Cheers!

User avatar
Snypehunter007
Registered user
Posts: 2750
Joined: 02 Dec 2015, 17:14
Location: Georgia
Byond: Snypehunter007
Contact:

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by Snypehunter007 » 24 Sep 2016, 16:03

While I wasn't online for this, I feel like this situation could have been avoided had you not decided to get revenge upon Ally for something that really didn't effect you.

Very minor comment.
Reached "Leet" post status on 3/14/17.
Death of the Suggestion Killer - 11/30/2017

Staff History:
► Show Spoiler
Image

User avatar
apophis775
Host
Host
Posts: 6985
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 18:05
Location: Ice Colony
Byond: Apophis775
Contact:

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by apophis775 » 24 Sep 2016, 17:06

Note is Valid in the fact that we are trying to CURB start-of-round bullshit.

Also, I agree with Dresdin. Only a fucking moron would try to choke someone out in a fight right away. It's a great way to get seriously injured unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.

I've been in many fights (many during my time in the Army), and trained in 3 different forms of Martial Arts (2 if you don't count Fencing as a martial art, which, fuck you it is) and you don't go for the choke unless you have no other option. Having to tie up BOTH your arms leaves you too exposed to literally anything else, including getting run backwards into walls, hit in the face, kidneys, ribs, etc.

Unless you are a VERY good grappler and get your opponent only the ground choking them out is futile as SO MUCH can go wrong while you are in such an exposed position.
ImageImage
flamecow wrote: "unga dunga me want the attachment" - average marine

User avatar
username123
Registered user
Posts: 285
Joined: 08 Feb 2016, 06:45

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by username123 » 24 Sep 2016, 17:40

apophis775 wrote:Note is Valid in the fact that we are trying to CURB start-of-round bullshit.

Also, I agree with Dresdin. Only a fucking moron would try to choke someone out in a fight right away. It's a great way to get seriously injured unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.

I've been in many fights (many during my time in the Army), and trained in 3 different forms of Martial Arts (2 if you don't count Fencing as a martial art, which, fuck you it is) and you don't go for the choke unless you have no other option. Having to tie up BOTH your arms leaves you too exposed to literally anything else, including getting run backwards into walls, hit in the face, kidneys, ribs, etc.

Unless you are a VERY good grappler and get your opponent only the ground choking them out is futile as SO MUCH can go wrong while you are in such an exposed position.
Right, if the note is for fighting in the beginning of the round, then change the note from improper escalation to "fighting at the beginning of the round" or something you see fit, because i didn't know that fighting at the beginning of the round was a rule of the server. and for the love of god, add that rule to the current rules of the server, because this could have be avoided if i knew it was a rule, if i knew about that, i would have reported allysa for starting the fight instead of defending myself in game.

User avatar
Feweh
Donor
Donor
Posts: 4870
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 19:34
Byond: Feweh

Re: Slc97 adding a note to me for improper escalation

Post by Feweh » 24 Sep 2016, 17:41

username123 wrote: Right, if the note is for fighting in the beginning of the round, then change the note from improper escalation to "fighting at the beginning of the round" or something you see fit, because i didn't know that fighting at the beginning of the round was a rule of the server. and for the love of god, add that rule to the current rules of the server, because this could have be avoided if i knew it was a rule, if i knew about that, i would have reported allysa for starting the fight instead of defending myself in game.
It's a note for us to keep track of players doing shitty stuff.
You arent being punished for it, it's so we can refer back to it in case something similar happens.

Locked