Jay Burns does not know the definition of powergaming

[Spacedandy17]

Your Byond Key:Spacedandy17

Your Character Name: Donathan Hughes

Their Byond key: Jay Burns

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 1:40PM Central Us Time 10/15/2016

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: Preserve the RP and enjoyment of the server' '3. Determine the seriousness of the issue'

Description of the incident: While playing as an alien runner I was ordered to stop hiding underneath a nested host by the trialmoderator as he deemed it "powergaming" but when I went to check the list of things included in powergaming I did not see it.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): http://imgur.com/a/kjOqU

How you would punish the accused: Ask them to please be more clear on what is defined as powergaming and against the rules.

[Joe4444]

https://gyazo.com/d335eecc2f2fa77fa538c8240033e865 just because its not in the list,doesn't mean its not powergaming my friend.

[Jay Burns]

Definition of powergaming: Powergaming is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie. so you took those screenshots after you were out of the nests, you were tackle spamming someone while under them abusing the hide mechanic of runners.

[Spacedandy17]

Hiding underneath a nest is a legitimate tactic and using it to keep a host from escaping is far from powergaming. If it's considered powergaming then why are mines which are hidden underneath many objects and explode when moving in front of them considered to be a legal tactic for marines? There really is no counterplay towards that as well yet it is perfectly well and fine when we cover the issue of "balance" for both sides.

[Jay Burns]

No, because hiding mines is a valid strategy which can be countered (crusher), while hiding underneath something with no chance to get hit is abusing the game mechanics.

[slc97]

I find myself having to agree with Jay here. The mechanic you point out has a mechanic in place to counter it. What you did was simple abuse of game mechanics which is powergaming.

[Feweh]

Can someone explain to me how he was under the host?
I can't picture what the hell you're talking about

[Jay Burns]

Can someone explain to me how he was under the host?
I can't picture what the hell you're talking about

basically he was on top of the hosts, but using hide so he went to the bottom of the pile on that tile, making him untouchable.

[Feweh]

Seems like a over-sight on our part to not fix this.
A warning seems appropriate though.

[forwardslashN]

I've done this a lot in the past. This isn't any different than hiding under a table or any other barricade and then spam tackling, since you can't be touched regardless of what you're hiding under. This shouldn't be punishable. If there's some issue with runners doing this, they shouldn't be allowed to hide at all.

[Ordukai]

There's actually a definite difference. As displayed by the quick "Runner hides underneath a nest" test I conducted in the thunderdome shown below (Note: The runner wisely tried to escape as soon as it realized what was happening, thus the offset blood),

► Show Spoiler

bullets absolutely do hit runners, regardless of whether they're hiding or not. Thus, runners hiding underneath tables are shootable. Runners hiding under barricades are somewhat less shootable, only somewhat though because barricades CAN be broken with bullets. However, runners hiding under the nest on the same tile that you're on in a 1x1 space are NOT shootable.

Of course, you might alt+click on the tile to get to them regardless of hiding and you're probably not going to melee them to death before they tackle and re-nest you, so whether it makes enough of a difference to be considered "Powergaming" is questionable. On the other hand, if you're not going to get melee'd to death anyways, there's no reason TO hide, right? Think of the poor marine's feelings. He's already been nested and infected with an alien parasite, what is he going to take out his aggression on? The runner? He can't, they're hiding beneath the nest!

What a lamentable set of circumstances.

[forwardslashN]

There's actually a definite difference. As displayed by the quick "Runner hides underneath a nest" test I conducted in the thunderdome shown below (Note: The runner wisely tried to escape as soon as it realized what was happening, thus the offset blood),

► Show Spoiler

bullets absolutely do hit runners, regardless of whether they're hiding or not. Thus, runners hiding underneath tables are shootable. Runners hiding under barricades are somewhat less shootable, only somewhat though because barricades CAN be broken with bullets. However, runners hiding under the nest on the same tile that you're on in a 1x1 space are NOT shootable.

Of course, you might alt+click on the tile to get to them regardless of hiding and you're probably not going to melee them to death before they tackle and re-nest you, so whether it makes enough of a difference to be considered "Powergaming" is questionable. On the other hand, if you're not going to get melee'd to death anyways, there's no reason TO hide, right? Think of the poor marine's feelings. He's already been nested and infected with an alien parasite, what is he going to take out his aggression on? The runner? He can't, they're hiding beneath the nest!

What a lamentable set of circumstances.

You can absolutely shoot them (with alt-click, you can also just pointblank, but that's not really viable when you're getting spam tackled). Step away one square, shoot anything on the other side of the runner. If the runner is hiding beneath a marine, who is nested, everyone else can also still shoot them. If the marine is in a checkboard nest, it doesn't even matter as one pounce will renest the marine anyway. People who expect the xenos to just stand around and wait for them to escape the nest and then yaketee from the hive boggle my mind.

[TR-BlackDragon]

IM going to have to agree with forwardslashN, while doing that may be unfun for the marine in question but its not against the rules nor is it abusing game mechanics. Ill speak with Jay about it and have the note removed. Please forgive the misunderstanding.

[Spacedandy17]

All is forgiven thank you for being understanding.