Stop Stunlocking
- Surrealistik
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Stop Stunlocking
Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Stop skilless, unfun, bullshit stunlocking by applying a cumulative stun resistance for each application of a stun effect.
Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Stop skilless, unfun, bullshit stunlocking.
Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Whenever a Weakened(i.e. knockdown)/Paralysis effect is applied to a Marine, Alien or other mob, a stack of 'stun resist' is applied. Each stack cumulatively reduces subsequent/following stun durations by 50% (or some other % as tweaks dictate; formula would be X * 0.5^Y where X is the initial duration, and Y is the # of resist stacks), causing most stuns to suffer diminishing returns (I would add a field in a stun application function that enables certain stuns to bypass/ignore resist stacks for the sake of things like Chems/Stun Batons/Tasers/Halloss strikes/TACKLES (just to be clear) etc). All resist stacks are removed 5-10 seconds (per tweaks/testing) after the last application of one.
Also to make this work correctly, stun times should probably be standardized and not RNG bullshit.
Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Minor coding changes.
Stop skilless, unfun, bullshit stunlocking by applying a cumulative stun resistance for each application of a stun effect.
Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Stop skilless, unfun, bullshit stunlocking.
Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Whenever a Weakened(i.e. knockdown)/Paralysis effect is applied to a Marine, Alien or other mob, a stack of 'stun resist' is applied. Each stack cumulatively reduces subsequent/following stun durations by 50% (or some other % as tweaks dictate; formula would be X * 0.5^Y where X is the initial duration, and Y is the # of resist stacks), causing most stuns to suffer diminishing returns (I would add a field in a stun application function that enables certain stuns to bypass/ignore resist stacks for the sake of things like Chems/Stun Batons/Tasers/Halloss strikes/TACKLES (just to be clear) etc). All resist stacks are removed 5-10 seconds (per tweaks/testing) after the last application of one.
Also to make this work correctly, stun times should probably be standardized and not RNG bullshit.
Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Minor coding changes.
Last edited by Surrealistik on 23 Oct 2016, 14:59, edited 4 times in total.
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- Sarah_U.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
I'd actually do the opposite, with a fast recovery rate. Call it stagger. If you disrupt the balance of a marine to the point he can't stand, he trips and now you can stunlock him by keeping him pinned with certain mechanics.
Otherwise recovering because you,re disbalanced seems off.
I still like the idea, but I'll stick to neutral.
Otherwise recovering because you,re disbalanced seems off.
I still like the idea, but I'll stick to neutral.
CM was obviously inspired by Starcraft: Ghost opening. At least when marines takes too long to deploy.
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- Toroic
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Stuns already have highly variable times for things like tackle and a failure rate to make stunlocking relatively difficult, and this would prevent being able to move infected hosts any significant distance if they escape the hive.
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Xenos Vult
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Tackles would probably be subject to exemption much like Stun Batons/Tasers would be per the bypass element of the stun application function.Toroic wrote:Stuns already have highly variable times for things like tackle and a failure rate to make stunlocking relatively difficult, and this would prevent being able to move infected hosts any significant distance if they escape the hive.
Also swallowing is still a thing.
Stun times should not be variable; that's fucking retarded.
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- Toroic
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Infected hosts can't be swallowed if they're awake, because they can chestbuster out of the xeno within 10 seconds.Surrealistik wrote: Tackles would probably be subject to exemption much like Stun Batons/Tasers would be per the bypass element of the stun application function.
Also swallowing is still a thing.
Stun times should not be variable; that's fucking retarded.
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Xenos Vult
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
>Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
>Minor coding changes.
So you say. This is not changing with the current system of combat, hugger carrying and all. What you are talking about is a major change to the game, and right now xenos have no way to keep hosts down at all without spam tackling. I'm debating closing this right now, but in itself this suggestion isn't that bad. Stun-based combat is pretty awful. It's also completely unworkable with how things are now.
>Minor coding changes.
So you say. This is not changing with the current system of combat, hugger carrying and all. What you are talking about is a major change to the game, and right now xenos have no way to keep hosts down at all without spam tackling. I'm debating closing this right now, but in itself this suggestion isn't that bad. Stun-based combat is pretty awful. It's also completely unworkable with how things are now.
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- Surrealistik
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
@Toroic: I'm aware; what I'm saying is that per the current system, hugging + devour still works, as does tackle spam.
@forwardslashN: Spam tackling isn't affected per the OP; they receive an exemption like chems, batons, tasers, etc.
@forwardslashN: Spam tackling isn't affected per the OP; they receive an exemption like chems, batons, tasers, etc.
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- forwardslashN
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
If you're not talking about applying resistance to things like tackles and tasers, what will this actually prevent? There are very few ways in the game to get stunned for decent duration without that stuff you listed, as far as I'm aware anyway. A lot of stuns are simply pain-based rather than true stuns, too. Queen's screech, for example, stuns you for a few seconds. The queen can't spam it. Pounces and tackles wear off in a second or two. Batons and alien disarms are the only things that I can think of that are consistently used against humans. Xenos only get stunned by explosions, and getting hit by one is usually a death sentence regardless.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
I'm presuming the suggestion would affect when you get stunlocked through neurotox spam.
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- Surrealistik
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
I'm talking about hard stuns, such as that via Screech, Stomp, Neurotox and Pounce. This will also help vs chain stuns from grenade spam when Marines are going full Campaco even though I don't think it will be at all a complete solution (Aliens really need to have multiple points of invasion).forwardslashN wrote:If you're not talking about applying resistance to things like tackles and tasers, what will this actually prevent? There are very few ways in the game to get stunned for decent duration without that stuff you listed, as far as I'm aware anyway. A lot of stuns are simply pain-based rather than true stuns, too. Queen's screech, for example, stuns you for a few seconds. The queen can't spam it. Pounces and tackles wear off in a second or two. Batons and alien disarms are the only things that I can think of that are consistently used against humans. Xenos only get stunned by explosions, and getting hit by one is usually a death sentence regardless.
In general Neurotox and Pounce based suppression will be most affected, and it will significantly impact cheesy strategies where these are used as Screech/Stomp follow up, or in tandem with each other.
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- LiquidRecluse
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
+1
witnessed myself getting tacklespammed repeatedly without no way to get out of it.
witnessed myself getting tacklespammed repeatedly without no way to get out of it.
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- Yacobpo157
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
+1
Deployed at B18 Spec early game, two runners and a spitter stun locked me back to their hive, and took out my helmet. They got their Queen killed, but they still shouldn't be able to do that and me not having a chance to fight back.
Deployed at B18 Spec early game, two runners and a spitter stun locked me back to their hive, and took out my helmet. They got their Queen killed, but they still shouldn't be able to do that and me not having a chance to fight back.
It's not dying after you shot it a couple of times? I think the real question is, why didn't you keep shooting?
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
You seriously feel that a third of the xeno team working together shouldn't be able to stun you back to their hive?Yacobpo157 wrote:+1
Deployed at B18 Spec early game, two runners and a spitter stun locked me back to their hive, and took out my helmet. They got their Queen killed, but they still shouldn't be able to do that and me not having a chance to fight back.
Seriously?
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Xenos Vult
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Yeah, I'm not sure this is the best example of chain stuns being problematic, since if they all chain tackled you which this proposal doesn't address, they would be just as successful.Toroic wrote: You seriously feel that a third of the xeno team working together shouldn't be able to stun you back to their hive?
Seriously?
That two runners and a spitter can chain suppress two marines in a combat almost indefinitely is more problematic.
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- Tristan63
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
The devs wont change the system they already have in place because of a possible salt filled addition.
While I do agree that getting tackled in any situation ends the round for you with no way to resist at all, is pretty shitty.
I also find some realism in it, but I also don't think xenos should be able to tackle because they have huge claws for hands.
While I do agree that getting tackled in any situation ends the round for you with no way to resist at all, is pretty shitty.
I also find some realism in it, but I also don't think xenos should be able to tackle because they have huge claws for hands.
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- Sailor Dave
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Something like this would be putting an unnecessary band-aid on an issue that is hotly debated right now, hugger combat. Most people don't like it, and solutions like halloss are still under consideration, although based on Forwardslashn's comment, possibly not. There should be, and probably is, more of a focus on reworking the system entirely right now for something better, rather than trying to make the current one work.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
It should be noted that this isn't intended as a 'bandaid' solution, or a substitute for getting rid of combat huggers, which I've outlined a comprehensive fix for here: http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=7572Sailor Dave wrote:Something like this would be putting an unnecessary band-aid on an issue that is hotly debated right now, hugger combat. Most people don't like it, and solutions like halloss are still under consideration, although based on Forwardslashn's comment, possibly not. There should be, and probably is, more of a focus on reworking the system entirely right now for something better, rather than trying to make the current one work.
This is intended as a _supplement_ for removal of combat hugging, but also works as a standalone fix to bad existing mechanics that are separate and distinct from hugging.
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- MrJJJ
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Unless i missed something, pounces from hunters and any T2-T3 aliens last a hell lot longer than 2 seconds, to the point where a mature/elite hunter can pounce you once and slash you to death withing the entire stun timeforwardslashN wrote:Pounces and tackles wear off in a second or two.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
I don't know what you mean by other t2's, 3's, but you are right about hunters. Their pounce is longer than two seconds. I think I had it confused with an older version of the game, where hunters were changed to pounce marines for less stun time, but pounce more often. It probably got changed pretty quickly after that, unsure.MrJJJ wrote:Unless i missed something, pounces from hunters and any T2-T3 aliens last a hell lot longer than 2 seconds, to the point where a mature/elite hunter can pounce you once and slash you to death withing the entire stun time
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- Jakers457
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Isn't stun locking the bread and butter of killing people?
+1 would shake things up a bit.
+1 would shake things up a bit.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Yep, including for Marines at times with chained shotgun blasts and grenade spam.Jakers457 wrote:Isn't stun locking the bread and butter of killing people?
+1 would shake things up a bit.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Bump due to being on 2nd page.
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- Butterrobber202
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
-1
No. If you get stunlocked it's because you didn't have any marines around you to shoot the stunner. This would make Rambos really good
No. If you get stunlocked it's because you didn't have any marines around you to shoot the stunner. This would make Rambos really good
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- InterroLouis
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
Don't forget that when you do get pounced, any marine that does try to shoot the xeno is more likely to hit you and not the xeno.
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Re: Stop Stunlocking
...Or you got machine gunned by neuro/chained by pounce/stomp with plenty of combatants on both sides.Butterrobber202 wrote:-1
No. If you get stunlocked it's because you didn't have any marines around you to shoot the stunner. This would make Rambos really good
...Or you were a Xeno being deluged with grenade spam.
Rambos are still going to get rekt by 2-3 v 1s, unless he's robust and the aliens he's fighting aren't. That bad players can't use stunlocks as a crutch is a _good_ thing.
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