Common sights that bother me in the Marines..

Renomaki · Post by **Renomaki** » 26 Oct 2016, 23:52

I played this server for quite some time, and during my time aboard, I couldn't help but notice a concerning reoccurring sight that I assumed other people would aim to correct, but instead do nothing to change it. I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way, or if there is a logical explanation to these things, but I just wanna spill it out and hope that maybe someone can help explain WHY this shit keeps happening.

1: ROs that don't open second lines to speed up things despite having a full crew at their disposal.

I see this happen a lot when I'm not working with cargo, and it bothers me so. I can understand if cargo is a bit understaffed, but most times I recall there being at least enough cargo techs to handle two lines... And yet, they rarely do, even when there is a huge line of marines and time is of the essence.

Whenever I go CT/RO, using my past experience with the lines, I always aim to try to get attachments out as soon as possible, getting both lines open when I can and managing the military budget so that marines get what they need when they need it (most of the time). So many marines complain about how slow cargo tends to be with handing out weapon mods, so why isn't most people who tackle it try to improve upon it? Is it that hard?

2: Squad leaders that are just glorified Grunts

Whenever I go SL (which is rare), I often focus more on leadership than combat, and thus prefer to take small arms like the Revolver (and a machete if I am able) and am heavily communicative with my squad, doing my best to keep the gang together while keeping in touch with command the best I can, summoning supplies when needed, and etc etc.

However, the majority of SLs I seen and were lead by often just take assault rifles and, the moment combat starts, gets stuck in deep guns blazing, and more often than not getting fucked over in the process because they charge at the enemy spamming burst fire. SLs are a vital role for keeping squads together and ensuring supplies are able to make it to the front. The moment an SL falls, command loses an eye on the ground, a forward supply point and a rally point for marines of a squad. It is really crippling when an SL falls in battle, so why do they rush in so carelessly and focus more on fighting than leading?

3: Marines cowering in pods that could get them all killed.

We all seen this one. Marines are evacing the Sully, they are trying to hold the escape hallway the best they can, and as the time ticks down closer and closer to escape, they all decide to run into the pods... And then die when the aliens swarm it and kill everyone inside, completely helpless to fight back.

Some of these people are experienced vets too, so you'd think they would know better than to crowd the pods before they know they secured them. It is bad enough when marines just fuck off to escape the moment shit hits the fan, abandoning some of the better defense positions in favor of a really cramped hallway that is hard to defend due to how easy it is for aliens to flank, let alone how common it is for them to melt the entire wall to evac. But when the marines decide to just huddle in the cramped pods while the aliens quickly flood the escape room is another bothersome thing that makes me question the logic of marines.

Look, if you are going to die, at least die fighting. Cramming into a pod with 10 other marines, with only a single narrow firing lane that a queen can easily handle to rush in and screech everyone to death is a waste of good manpower. I'll never understand why they'd rather die on the pods than die defending them while they refuel (which takes 23 minutes, which makes the idea of marines sitting in the pod for such a long time a real disgrace).

There are a few others that bug me, but this is just a trio of things I seen often that makes me question things an awful lot.. If anyone can explain why some of this shit happens, I'd love that, thanks.

Liran343 · Post by **Liran343** » 27 Oct 2016, 09:19

The salt... it burns

RuiXon · Post by **RuiXon** » 27 Oct 2016, 11:21

Renomaki wrote: 2: Squad leaders that are just glorified Grunts

Whenever I go SL (which is rare), I often focus more on leadership than combat, and thus prefer to take small arms like the Revolver (and a machete if I am able) and am heavily communicative with my squad, doing my best to keep the gang together while keeping in touch with command the best I can, summoning supplies when needed, and etc etc.

However, the majority of SLs I seen and were lead by often just take assault rifles and, the moment combat starts, gets stuck in deep guns blazing, and more often than not getting fucked over in the process because they charge at the enemy spamming burst fire. SLs are a vital role for keeping squads together and ensuring supplies are able to make it to the front. The moment an SL falls, command loses an eye on the ground, a forward supply point and a rally point for marines of a squad. It is really crippling when an SL falls in battle, so why do they rush in so carelessly and focus more on fighting than leading?

Because they can always blame it on Command being shit regardless if its Command's fault or not and they can bet on their troops dragging them out to get cloned since they're the SL vs a regular boot so there's really no repercussion to being a grunt SL. Shitty way of thinking but alot of SLs I see act this way.

Renomaki · Post by **Renomaki** » 27 Oct 2016, 13:11

Liran343 wrote:The salt... it burns

Oh no, this isn't a salt thread despite what you might imagine.

Rather, it is a serious set of questions based on my experiences as a marine on this server that just keep happening.

"Command sucks, we lost because of them!" "The RO sucks, he is too slow with attachments!" "Aliens OP, please nerf!" and etc etc.... The general question to all of these is "Why don't marines try to improve on past mistakes and attempt to do better?"

For instance, with the RO line, I experienced a lot of annoying rounds where the line for attachments grew to insane lengths, and yet nothing was done to speed it up. Learning from past experiences, I worked on trying to improve the quality of life for marines so they get their requests and orders out in a timely manner so they don't miss briefing over attachments. However, it appears I'm the only one who tries this, while many others who work in cargo, regardless of their past experience on the other side of the window, just end up repeating the mistakes they themselves hate so much.

Things like this bother me, because some of these people are very experienced at this game, having played for months.. And yet they still make the same mistakes over and over, and I just don't understand this logic.

Liran343 · Post by **Liran343** » 27 Oct 2016, 16:49

I don't want to sound like that guy but.. you need to chill a bit. Believe me when I say they learn from past mistakes but slowly... It's uncommon getting the same role (RO, spc, SL) twice in a row because there are other players who quelled for the same role... so they don't "learn" by changing their angle, mainly because they forget. because how long it is until you get to play these roles again.

Additionally, you could also say it's because the game isn't super competitive.. it's more to have fun than uploading how many time a predator annihilated you in the forums...

Also, about the part you wrote when marines are little bitches and they rather retreat than fighting in close xeno VS marine combat... well no shit Sherlock, the offensive caste can easily pounce your ass dropping huggers like there's no tomorrow and you're not certain how much is the xeno player is "experienced" so you just assume by default they know their shit. and don't get me started of those damn boilers and carriers...

So my advise to you chill, relax and try to enjoy the game.

Casany · Post by **Casany** » 27 Oct 2016, 17:00

Liran343 wrote:I don't want to sound like that guy but.. you need to chill a bit. Believe me when I say they learn from past mistakes but slowly... It's uncommon getting the same role (RO, spc, SL) twice in a row because there are other players who quelled for the same role... so they don't "learn" by changing their angle, mainly because they forget because how long it is until you get to play these roles again.

Additionally, you could also say it's because the game isn't super competitive.. it's more to have fun than uploading how many time a predator annihilated you in the forums...

Also, about the part you wrote when marines are little bitches and they rather retreat than fighting in close xeno VS marine combat... well no shit Sherlock, the offensive caste can easily pounce your ass dropping huggers like there's no tomorrow and you're not certain how much is the xeno player is "experienced" so you just assume by default they know their shit. and don't get me started of those damn boilers and carriers...

So my advise to you chill, relax and try to enjoy the game

Don't know where your getting the impression this is a salt thread. It looks like quite the opposite. He is trying to inform people how to better play the game. And I agree with all his points

Liran343 · Post by **Liran343** » 27 Oct 2016, 17:20

The fact the he generalizes how most people that do important jobs like the ones mentioned above are... incompetent and should GIT GUD because he don't understand the "logic" behind these mistakes because "I played for quite a while and I don't understand why these boots have the difficulty getting gud" and how it bugs him is called salt.

If he'd said something along the lines of: "hey guys I've noticed a disturbing pattern in marine behavior so here are my tips that will hopefully negate the problem" I'll call it a legitimate post.. but as it stands it just salt with a side of comments regarding the issue.

Bigchilly · Post by **Bigchilly** » 27 Oct 2016, 17:23

Points 1 and 2 are more of less things that arent (edit) a major problem and that doesn't hurt marines that much. Though most of the time problem 3 is always why alien minors are getting rarer, is the fact marines dont know how to defend the pods when they are being called. Once they are called it seems like a switch is flipped the marines head that makes them all cower in the pod, making the escape hallway fail. Afterwards of course all the marines are slaughtered in the pod due to just sitting on their ass awhile the aliens stand on top of them.

Liran343 · Post by **Liran343** » 27 Oct 2016, 17:32

Bigchilly wrote:Points 1 and 2 are more of less things that arent (edit) a major problem and that doesn't hurt marines that much. Though most of the time problem 3 is always why alien minors are getting rarer, is the fact marines dont know how to defend the pods when they are being called. Once they are called it seems like a switch is flipped the marines head that makes them all cower in the pod, making the escape hallway fail. Afterwards of course all the marines are slaughtered in the pod due to just sitting on their ass awhile the aliens stand on top of them.

You can't blame them.. in that point in the game there's no command staff or heads you can listen to due to the fact they fought bravely in the lower decks and didn't make it or just bunkering somewhere behind triple thick walls with electrified grilles and flipped tables (I'm looking at you CE). So the marines won't stand their ground unless their SL managed to pull through all the way and tells them to hold the line.

Renomaki · Post by **Renomaki** » 27 Oct 2016, 20:01

Liran343 wrote:I

So my advise to you chill, relax and try to enjoy the game.

I very well do enjoy the game, it is just that I grow tired of DC and OOC being filled with the very salt you accuse me spewing.

This list was partly inspired by common conversations in Dchat and OOC, where people bitch and moan about things such as command staff or aliens and whathaveyou, and how it baffles me that the same people who complain about such things do little to change it for themselves.

Me? I'm not a salty person most of the time, but I do take passion in my work, and like doing my very best to make the round more fun for marines, because nothing sucks more than when you have to deal with people who put forward a half assed job because they don't get to shoot things for the duration of the round. I know it is boring and all, but still, you play just as important a role.. Even the MTs, as hard as that is to believe.

Does this topic seem rantish? Probably, but after hearing the same old bitching for weeks on end, and yet seeing little in the way of changing (even simple changes like opening two lines in cargo), it does, as the topic state, bother me.

I can't be the only one who pays attention to the things around him and thinks "How can I make this better [without metagaming]?"

Post by **forwardslashN** » 27 Oct 2016, 20:50

The only thing that bothers me is cowardly marines, with or without a shuttle to cower in. But it's also sometimes IC appropriate, so it's not a huge deal. For example, a few rounds ago the CO welded the escape shuttles as others were trying to defend them outside, and most still managed to escape. It was interesting from an IC perspective, because all of the VIPs made it out, and it made sense to preserve the people who actually mattered. Marines refusing to attack with overwhelming numbers, or push when they're wounded, that kind of bothers me. Sometimes a lot.

SL grunts, there's just no helping that. Few people are good leaders, especially in a game like CM that requires a whole new understanding of SS13. The same with ROs. Not everyone is super competent at their job, after all.

Karmac · Post by **Karmac** » 27 Oct 2016, 22:15

Thanks for the SL tips, definitely refining my play-style after reading this.

Post by **TeknoKot** » 28 Oct 2016, 02:23

SL's are glorified grunts though, one's you follow as well. Communication is another key for them they need, that's all.

SL's are people that are supposed to be far experienced than anyone else, grunts, medics, you name em'. You're supposed to take examples of them and do what they tell you, SL shouldn't sit around unless he's tasked with defending FoB.

This is why I prefer experienced players take SL. It's the only role that's important, including CO/XO, RO.

edit:: Just as Noize said, you need to understand the game before you take this role, I've seen horrible SL's, really awful ones actually(once an SL thought it's a great idea to take a flamer and riot shield, rush caves with 2 men only to rescue people, whilst not communicating with 9+ more marines in LZ1 and dying in process)

Winter · Post by **Winter** » 30 Oct 2016, 03:38

I tried RO, but I don't think I'm gonna do it again because slow is bad. Annoyingly the only way to get better at something is to do it, but learning curves and being slow annoy people who depend on that job. Barghle.

pedrokullukian · Post by **pedrokullukian** » 27 Nov 2016, 17:13

I did that, the problem is, they were outside alredy, and getting out is equal to not getting cloned, you're gonna die anyway, make sure they have your body

Hakul · Post by **Hakul** » 03 Dec 2016, 17:30

There is a 2nd line at Reqoustions? is it the ROs office or?

Heckenshutze · Post by **Heckenshutze** » 03 Dec 2016, 20:01

When command decides to lockdown the Sulaco thinking they're saving the ship but they're actually fucking everyone up. Everytime this happens i wanna gun down the entire command crew (marines tend to do it)

Youbar · Post by **Youbar** » 03 Dec 2016, 23:55

Heckenshutze wrote:When command decides to lockdown the Sulaco thinking they're saving the ship but they're actually fucking everyone up. Everytime this happens i wanna gun down the entire command crew (marines tend to do it)

Mobility is the marine's strongest advantage. Command has to be incredibly stupid to deny this advantage to the marines, isolating and trapping them in place, while Xenoes can take to slowly melting the walls, giving them the edge.

Winter wrote:I tried RO, but I don't think I'm gonna do it again because slow is bad. Annoyingly the only way to get better at something is to do it, but learning curves and being slow annoy people who depend on that job. Barghle.

Everybody has to start somewhere. As the RO, you have two CTs that can make up for your slow pace. People starting out in a role can rapidly learn and adapt from their mistakes. You'll only be incompetent for a few rounds, before you get the hang of it.

Dapper Stache · Post by **Dapper Stache** » 05 Dec 2016, 08:45

I very much agree with your sentiment on grunt SLs, whenever I play command staff they're the bane of my existence. Few people fully understand how important OBs, eyes, and communication with command is to a good assault. And then when the SLs die and you have nothing they point fingers at command instead of who is actually responsible.

Monoo · Post by **Monoo** » 05 Dec 2016, 12:58

A Dapper Spider wrote:I very much agree with your sentiment on grunt SLs, whenever I play command staff they're the bane of my existence. Few people fully understand how important OBs, eyes, and communication with command is to a good assault. And then when the SLs die and you have nothing they point fingers at command instead of who is actually responsible.

It's an extremely fine line. A good SL should definitely be expected to lead the way from time or time. I agree with you that OBs, command lines and helmet cam feeds are all vital, but so is morale.

You should never be in the middle of an early skirmish or anything that can put your equipment in danger, and instead use your binocs and give commands to the rest of the squad from cover. But when it comes to late game pushes, your authority is absolutely necessary at the forefront of the assault. If the grunts see a leader they can trust at the front (usually better equipped to take a beating) they'll be more inclined to push in with you and finish the job. The potential loss of equipment is worth the shot at winning - but then, a good SL will also know when to cut their losses and pull out rather than winding up dead.

Renomaki · Post by **Renomaki** » 05 Dec 2016, 13:52

Monoo wrote:It's an extremely fine line. A good SL should definitely be expected to lead the way from time or time. I agree with you that OBs, command lines and helmet cam feeds are all vital, but so is morale.

You should never be in the middle of an early skirmish or anything that can put your equipment in danger, and instead use your binocs and give commands to the rest of the squad from cover. But when it comes to late game pushes, your authority is absolutely necessary at the forefront of the assault. If the grunts see a leader they can trust at the front (usually better equipped to take a beating) they'll be more inclined to push in with you and finish the job. The potential loss of equipment is worth the shot at winning - but then, a good SL will also know when to cut their losses and pull out rather than winding up dead.

Once, as a BO, I had a squad leader who, in a frenzy of sorts, decided to rush into the caves ALONE while his spec was trying to keep everyone together for the push. The former later ended up dying horribly after being told countless time to fall back, only to refuse due to his delusions of Robustness.

Those kinds of leaders are the ones I refer to when I talk about Glorified Grunts, and I hate it when people forget the importance of their role.

Indeed, in the late game, it is important, if not outright VITAL for an SL to lead his men in a push and take risks if needed to ensure victory, but one should NEVER forget who they are: A leader.

While your grunts fight and skirmish during the endgame big push into the xeno caves, it is expected that you are keeping a constant eye on battlefield conditions, making sure supplies are sent in to feed the push, your troops are orbiting you, and that your rear is watched. For a push to be successful, you have to be constantly aware of your surroundings, communicate with the other SLs, and plan your moves to ensure your squad gets the job done.

Far too often I had experienced SLs who charge ahead of their squad, refuse to call down supplies when it could have saved them (in fact, I had some rounds as RO where not a single request was made), get stuck in bottlenecks to which they get beat up badly, and communicate little. If more SLs lead with brains more than brawn, we might have a slightly higher marine win ratio.

Skane10634 · Post by **Skane10634** » 12 Dec 2016, 19:09

Addendum; Marines breaking windows on the RASP, like come the fuck on.

Hakul · Post by **Hakul** » 13 Dec 2016, 02:38

The amount of times i saw SLs shoot me in the head cuz they think dose more damadge to xenos is fucking annoyng

Caryl · Post by **Caryl** » 02 Mar 2017, 11:51

Common sights that bother me

1. Marines who say they'll follow you, then fuck off the moment they land.
2. Said marines only use the radio when they're captured, blame you, and then cuss at you for not helping them, when you didn't even see where they fought.
3. When you know your Medics, Engineers, and Spec are people who refuse to follow orders/commands, and are rambo-ish. (Baldies, even) It's the worst-case scenario for a squad.
4. When you have teammates whose names are in Russian (mostly).

nerocavalier · Post by **nerocavalier** » 02 Mar 2017, 12:19

Command making questionable decisions: "Oh, instead of bringing X Squad up via Rasputin to reinforce Y Squad at LZ2 with Pod, we'll make them march underground through enemy territory!"

Command blaming marines for dying because of their questionable orders: "Look, I told you guys to move north, your fault for being attacked immediately upon going down and not following my orders."

And finally marines that constantly yell at their medic for a bandage, peridaxon, or tramadol while they're knee deep in dying marines.

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