Buff Bayonets Because They Suck

[Surrealistik]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Per the Subject.


Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Makes bayonets a more competitive/enticing modification.


Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Currently bayonets give you more melee damage with your gun at the cost of accuracy.

Given that point blank shots do significantly more damage than bayonet melee (to quash a rumour, no, bayonets do not stack with or otherwise increase the damage of point blank shots), that boot knives exist, and that, with the solitary exception of a hive assault, you're usually clearing obstacles in safe conditions where you don't need your rifle two-handed and ready to fire immediately (and if you've got a macro to put the knife away & draw your gun, this already situational benefit is further diminished), bayonets generally aren't worth their penalty to accuracy. The only other situation in which they're useful, escaping from a Hive with a magnetic attachment so you effectively have a knife you can't lose, is exceedingly rare in light of honeycombs + Sentinel camp.


So, there's the idea of giving them a defensive 'deflection' component: http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.p ... 369#p82292


Another idea is giving them a riposte/counterattack that can be activated.

For those who haven't played Dark Souls which this mechanic is inspired by, the game has parries and partial parries. Parries when timed correctly against an enemy melee attack negate that attack and grant the opportunity for a devastating counter/riposte. Partial parries reduce the damage of an attack, and prevent any kind of stagger/knockdown.

I'm proposing that bayonets grant the ability to 'Ready Bayonet'. Essentially when activated, this gives you a brief window during which melee attacks (including pounces and tackles) are reduced in effectiveness if made from a direction the user is facing. VS T1s, such attacks are negated entirely. VS T2s (and Predators) it reduces their damage considerably. VS T3 it reduces their damage slightly. In every case, successful timing negates any stun/knockdown, and especially good timing results in an immediate melee counter attack that deals bonus damage. This ability has a cooldown to preclude spamming, and punishes poor timing with bonus damage against the defending marine as he is caught off guard.

The break down:
Tick 1: Deflection Ticks: Melee attacks that hit you at this point are reduced in impact as above.
Tick 2: Deflection + Riposte Ticks: As deflection ticks, and you follow up with an automatic and especially damaging riposte melee attack using the bayonet; this attack features a special mention.
Tick 3: Punishment Ticks: If you are hit by a melee attack at this point, you take extra damage from it; you receive a notification of being caught off guard.

Taking any action other than a melee attack or moving (like shooting), or unequipping/deselecting your bayonet weapon immediately cancels the Ready Bayonet state if it's on deflection ticks (it will not cancel 'punishment' ticks when they've started after the deflection ticks). Landing a successful riposte automatically cancels the Ready Bayonet state, including punishment ticks.

In general, it's a buff that requires skill to use effectively and punishes shittiness/spamming. Bayonets can also obviously be countered by catching a Marine from behind/the side via flanking or surprise (like a Hunter pouncing out of a cloak).


Lastly a bayonet charge based on the Crusher charge mechanics.


I propose giving them either one of these three options, OR #1 or #2 AND the bayonet charge.


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Coding.

[Youbar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq-OZzzAAKs

I'm going to have to give this a +1. When faced with defeat, it should be every marine's duty to partake in a banzai charge to regain their honour.

[coroneljones]

+1
AFFIX BAYONETS!

[Jakers457]

+1 for obvious reasons

[Simo94]

+1 BANZAIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!

[Derpislav]

+1 because this is skill-based rather than a "lolbuff".

[Heckenshutze]

YES. +1

[Eenkogneeto]

-1 Doesn't improve bayonets niche at all, Plus they really don't need a buff, Bayonet+Stock on a shotgun does as much or more damage than a machete.

[Azmodan412]

-1 Doesn't improve bayonets niche at all, Plus they really don't need a buff, Bayonet+Stock on a shotgun does as much or more damage than a machete.

Yet machetes are preferred due to their block chance (which is bullshit in Hunter Games). I will give this a +1 because Dark Souls SS13 when?

[Monoo]

-1 Doesn't improve bayonets niche at all, Plus they really don't need a buff, Bayonet+Stock on a shotgun does as much or more damage than a machete.

And yet stocks are much less widely available. They're usually out of them minutes after round start.

This leaves most marines access to just a bayonet, which is objectively a straight downgrade to just point blanking the enemy.

+1

[InterroLouis]

Yet machetes are preferred due to their block chance (which is bullshit in Hunter Games). I will give this a +1 because Dark Souls SS13 when?

The block chance was actually removed from the machete.

[Surrealistik]

-1 Doesn't improve bayonets niche at all, Plus they really don't need a buff, Bayonet+Stock on a shotgun does as much or more damage than a machete.

Why blow a precious attachment slot on the stock (which is sometimes hard to get before the RO runs out) to slightly improve melee damage such that it's still less powerful than point blank shots?

I'd say a buff that allows you to extract a significant defensive and offensive benefit in melee in the event you're good enough to time it certainly improves the bayonet's CQC niche (hell it pretty much gives it one), and makes it relevant as opposed to the case now where point blanks are better, and it serves essentially no point except to make your ranged attacks shittier.

[Eenkogneeto]

I have personally found bayonets to be incredibly strong and a reliable choice for attachments, Maybe its just me. I think people dont realize how much melee damage your gun /starts/ with.

[Simo94]

i only use bayonet on shotty when using buckshots, and only for finishing a crit xeno, dont really care about any accuracy issues using buckshots and they are horrid for finishing crit targets

[Surrealistik]

i only use bayonet on shotty when using buckshots, and only for finishing a crit xeno, dont really care about any accuracy issues using buckshots and they are horrid for finishing crit targets

If you're finishing a crit Xeno why not use a bootknife or even a pistol so you don't get acid splashed? Sure bayonet has some minor convenience in that you don't have to swap in, but with macros that benefit is basically infinitesima and beyond niche.

[Simo94]

If you're finishing a crit Xeno why not use a bootknife or even a pistol so you don't get acid splashed? Sure bayonet has some minor convenience in that you don't have to swap in, but with macros that benefit is basically infinitesima and beyond niche.

with bayo i can still keep my shotgun ready to fire if another one shows up, and its really fast too, like boom point blank buckshot and 2 pokes and its done, also the macro system is really clunky sometimes it lags and skips a verb on long macros, also bayo isnt worth using on any other setup besides buckshot imo

[Stingray]

Bayonets are not meant to be a primary weapon to be used all the time. If you want a decent melee weapon to rely on, use the machete. The bayonet is either for last-second defense or for bashing a downed xeno without wasting ammo or having to reach your bootknife. -1

[Surrealistik]

with bayo i can still keep my shotgun ready to fire if another one shows up, and its really fast too, like boom point blank buckshot and 2 pokes and its done, also the macro system is really clunky sometimes it lags and skips a verb on long macros, also bayo isnt worth using on any other setup besides buckshot imo

The bootknife swap macro is too simple to ever skip; I've never experienced it. Granted you save at _most_ 0.5 seconds vs the bootknife with a bayonet, but that's about the full extent of the benefit, and it's only really beneficial at all on shotties.

Bayonets are not meant to be a primary weapon to be used all the time. If you want a decent melee weapon to rely on, use the machete. The bayonet is either for last-second defense or for bashing a downed xeno without wasting ammo or having to reach your bootknife. -1

This doesn't make the bayonet a primary weapon; it makes it a useful CQC niche tool as opposed to one that saves you maybe a split second or less on macroed swaps with a Shotgun (because it's not worth it at all on any other weapon).

[Warnipple]

+1 for bayonets

Although iRL bayonets is not meant to turn your gun into a spear except for maybe when muskets were still around. Its more a deterrent for the enemy to charge you/come in close because if they don't get shot, they're going to get the pointy end of your rifle.

Anyway, I think bayonets should have a greater purpose, in this game.

[Heckenshutze]

Bayonets are not meant to be a primary weapon to be used all the time. If you want a decent melee weapon to rely on, use the machete. The bayonet is either for last-second defense or for bashing a downed xeno without wasting ammo or having to reach your bootknife. -1

In the medieval age, knights used spears as a tool to prevent the enemy to charge at them or get too close.

And it's still the same purpose in the present time with the bayonet. It's a tool, can't be a primary weapon, the rifle where it goes it's the primary weapon.

[Monoo]

In the medieval age, knights used spears as a tool to prevent the enemy to charge at them or get too close.

And it's still the same purpose in the present time with the bayonet. It's a tool, can't be a primary weapon, the rifle where it goes it's the primary weapon.

knights foot soldiers used spears pikes as a tool to prevent the enemy literally anyone heading their direction, to charge at them or get too close.

Pikes in the high and late Middle Ages were a powerful defensive tool, exercised in heavily rehearsed formations by a unit of foot. Spears were smaller, typically employed by men-at-arms or other types on horseback, or as a primary weapon for your average peasant. Bayonets are neither of those. They're a last-resort melee weapon for when your trench gets swarmed or you make a last-ditch charge down the hill. It's not for LRC. Regarding cases of life or death, it probably needs to be more effective at CQC than it is.

[Derpislav]

I think people are missing the point. It's not about buffing the bayonet outright to make it turn your rifle into a spear. It's about giving it a secondary set of mechanics that require skill and timing to execute, making it a tool, not a weapon upgrade.

[Surrealistik]

I think people are missing the point. It's not about buffing the bayonet outright to make it turn your rifle into a spear. It's about giving it a secondary set of mechanics that require skill and timing to execute, making it a tool, not a weapon upgrade.

Yeah. With the ripostes, if you fuck up your timing enough, you eat _more_ damage too.

[RuiXon]

+1 Makes bayonets more interesting/viable. Historically speaking Marines love practicing with their bayonets so its not fantasy to have them actually know how to riptose and such with a bayonet since they're trained on how to so it hits all marks.

[Snypehunter007]

Old, lack of continued interest.

Locking.