There needs to be a player limit.

[Renomaki]

The thing that worries me is how the massive population will affect balance?

Balance as I believe it was set around the 125-150 player mark. Having 250-300 players, on the other hand, is going to wonk up the balance somewhat and make things a little trickier to determine when there is an unwanted balancing issue.

When the new Carbine (and IFF Scope) was introduced, it was quickly noted to be a tad more powerful than tested and had to be adjusted, because the devs didn't take into account the sheer number of marines that would be using it at one time. Like many devs in many games, they probably underestimated (or in some cases, overestimated) the players who would use it, assuming that it would only be deployed in smaller numbers and be a useful support weapon. What ended up happening was large numbers of marines forming death blobs that xenos couldn't get near without getting instantly shredded. Thus, they made IFF scopes less easy to come across to fix the issue.

Now imagine trying to balance a new xeno caste/marine weapon when having to consider current population? It may be more difficult to simulate events accurately, moreso if the population eventually wanes back to the 150 range, but when that'll happen, I am unsure. Moreso when you have to keep in mind player capability, since right now we got a lotta newbies trying to learn the game as if this post, which may affect accuracy of tests.

Now, I am not one to doubt the capability of our devs, but If I were a dev, I'd probably focus on more minor updates until I am certain that the population has stabilized, then use it as a base-point for future balance/content updates.

Much love devs, just ah, throwing out an opinion.

[fernandos33]

we could have that line thing that TG made, i do think we need a limit but for lag reasons, idk what number between 200 and 300 will make lag, plus devs taking the blood splatters out helps a lot, but making so after 300 joined the next person to try wait in a line i think would be a pretty good idea, plus its not like that 301th player is going to haev more fun woth so much lag (( ps i'm not native to english so i have no idea if its 301th or 301st or whatever i'm guessing its Th but sorry if i'm wrong)

so yeah not sure the sweetspot but if more than 300 gives lag for sure why not cap it and make a line (maybe go down numbers to find the spot that have the optmal lag vs amount of people) but i don't see a reason why not cap at 300 to start with

[FGRSentinel]

It's important to remember that a handful of devs and other staff are hoping for a higher average pop on the server and a number of their plans for the future are based around a specific minimum pop. I know a few have cited 200+ pop as what they're hoping for to make their planned projects more enjoyable and worth the effort, for instance.

One thing I can say, though, is that beyond the lag there were a few IC logistical issues that were brought up before that caused serious problems during that first day when we had over 320 people on the server at once. As I said before, Medbay, Req, and the dropships aren't set up to handle 200+ players. Req's two lines mean that even if the Req staff are on top of things (unlikely) and the Marines all have their orders together instead of being obnoxious memers or saying one thing at a time (which even in 100 players there's always 5-6 per line that do that) will take way more than the usual half hour. Medbay can only handle four surgeries at one time (and that requires the doctors to all know what they're doing and actually use the OTs properly) and only have one Autodoc to handle cases that'd take too long by hand or wouldn't be worth the doctors' time in a rush (which the CMO/extra doctor almost never ensures is put to use).

As for the Dropships... God, the dropships. As a PO I can accurately say that anything over about 100 Marines and the Dropships can barely keep up. The last time I cited this we didn't have the tank in either, so there was more room to move around. Imagine trying to cram all 200+ Marines into the half of the dropship not taken up by the tank when most of them won't rest to make room, but everyone wants to be on first drop. Imagine trying to evac 30+ Marines when they always strap into the first free chair and don't rest to let more people through the one-tile wide gap between chairs. Transport is a nightmare. CASEVAC isn't much better since Medevac is limited to 2 (3 if you've got two POs and they're coordinated enough to not waste time) Marines per trip. Theoretically, you can use two Medevac systems on a single dropship now, but most people don't do that and it still requires someone to unload the critically wounded (nobody ever does) so the POs don't have to drag them all the way to Medbay and let medevac requests pile up.

What I'm thinking, right now, is that if we're going to go for 200-250 as the average server pop target, Req, Medbay, and the hangar/dropships all need to be redesigned and expanded to handle that pop. Otherwise trying to work with the Almayer as it is will be far too painful for the average player.

[Lumdor]

Book say no.

[Cimo]

imagine if 80+ ppl didnt join TGMC server and had to come here too, CM would implode with baldies

[Renomaki]

What I'm thinking, right now, is that if we're going to go for 200-250 as the average server pop target, Req, Medbay, and the hangar/dropships all need to be redesigned and expanded to handle that pop. Otherwise trying to work with the Almayer as it is will be far too painful for the average player.

The problem with that is that, in the event the population wanes dramatically (which it could), you'll end up with a much more empty environment that might seem excessive.

Lets say we replaced our dropship/ships with some kind of jumbo class, 80 seat with room for 2 tanks heavy transport ship, big and bulky to the point you have to remake the LZs on every map to fit their mighty girth. Might be good for when you have a ton of marines to load onto a pair of ships, but what if the population doesn't stick around long enough for these ships to really settle in? All of a sudden, you got these fatass dropships feeling a whole lot more... Wasteful in land occupation. Plus it would also hurt the little details too.

And in the case of expanding departments, how will the game be balanced if medical suddenly got like, 3 more autodocs to work with, or cargo has 2 more service stations to serve marines? What to do with excess staff in these departments when the population drops to 150 or less?

When the Almayer was made, it was due to the fact that the old Sulaco was starting to struggle with the high capacity of marines roaming her halls, so she had to be retired for a new, more advanced and bigger ship, complete with a larger briefing hall (that still isn't big enough sometimes) to tend to a larger force, complete with larger medical bay and double cargo lines, two dropships instead of a single dropship and pod, and other little odds and sods.

She worked because at the time, the population was more stable, and while it might sometimes dip below 100, the ship still had plenty of room for everyone and then some without feeling too empty and excessive. That, and the server was able to kinda handle the larger population, and eventual updates came to match.

The real question is, I guess, is how long we should wait before doing anything major? A lot of people are trying out the game, and a lot of them are probably not gonna stick around due to the fact that their experiences are probably not gonna be like that video they watched whatsoever (after all, you can't give people in this game pizza arms and legs and there are no cat people to troll)

[awan]

The problem with that is that, in the event the population wanes dramatically (which it could), you'll end up with a much more empty environment that might seem excessive.

Lets say we replaced our dropship/ships with some kind of jumbo class, 80 seat with room for 2 tanks heavy transport ship, big and bulky to the point you have to remake the LZs on every map to fit their mighty girth. Might be good for when you have a ton of marines to load onto a pair of ships, but what if the population doesn't stick around long enough for these ships to really settle in? All of a sudden, you got these fatass dropships feeling a whole lot more... Wasteful in land occupation. Plus it would also hurt the little details too.

And in the case of expanding departments, how will the game be balanced if medical suddenly got like, 3 more autodocs to work with, or cargo has 2 more service stations to serve marines? What to do with excess staff in these departments when the population drops to 150 or less?

When the Almayer was made, it was due to the fact that the old Sulaco was starting to struggle with the high capacity of marines roaming her halls, so she had to be retired for a new, more advanced and bigger ship, complete with a larger briefing hall (that still isn't big enough sometimes) to tend to a larger force, complete with larger medical bay and double cargo lines, two dropships instead of a single dropship and pod, and other little odds and sods.

She worked because at the time, the population was more stable, and while it might sometimes dip below 100, the ship still had plenty of room for everyone and then some without feeling too empty and excessive. That, and the server was able to kinda handle the larger population, and eventual updates came to match.

The real question is, I guess, is how long we should wait before doing anything major? A lot of people are trying out the game, and a lot of them are probably not gonna stick around due to the fact that their experiences are probably not gonna be like that video they watched whatsoever (after all, you can't give people in this game pizza arms and legs and there are no cat people to troll)

The thing that worries me is how the massive population will affect balance?

Balance as I believe it was set around the 125-150 player mark. Having 250-300 players, on the other hand, is going to wonk up the balance somewhat and make things a little trickier to determine when there is an unwanted balancing issue.

When the new Carbine (and IFF Scope) was introduced, it was quickly noted to be a tad more powerful than tested and had to be adjusted, because the devs didn't take into account the sheer number of marines that would be using it at one time. Like many devs in many games, they probably underestimated (or in some cases, overestimated) the players who would use it, assuming that it would only be deployed in smaller numbers and be a useful support weapon. What ended up happening was large numbers of marines forming death blobs that xenos couldn't get near without getting instantly shredded. Thus, they made IFF scopes less easy to come across to fix the issue.

Now imagine trying to balance a new xeno caste/marine weapon when having to consider current population? It may be more difficult to simulate events accurately, moreso if the population eventually wanes back to the 150 range, but when that'll happen, I am unsure. Moreso when you have to keep in mind player capability, since right now we got a lotta newbies trying to learn the game as if this post, which may affect accuracy of tests.

Now, I am not one to doubt the capability of our devs, but If I were a dev, I'd probably focus on more minor updates until I am certain that the population has stabilized, then use it as a base-point for future balance/content updates.

Much love devs, just ah, throwing out an opinion.

We monitor player count very closely.
The same with the winrate.
And cm is quite scaleable. We have already added in extra roles on the marines side.
Even xeno's got new roles very recently.

At least 70% of the human players is normaly in a squad and we can scale squads up without issue.
And people keep asking for new roles in squads like a fireteam leader. Well what if you could assign one?
In general development is not hindered by how much we can grow. It's the other way around.
I am not saying we will always be growing. But our dev team is expanding quite a bit and I honestly think the golden time for cm has yet to come.
(But is also over.) I will honestly say the first golden time of cm ended. But since 2019 started we made great progress to base the second golden age on.

And no CM is certainly not to big to fail. But in general the trent is still upwards. And I am very much of opinion we will deal with drops in player counts when they happen.

[davidofmk771]

Haven't played in about a week and decided to hop on. My experience says we might need a temporary server split and player caps. Unless the devs have immediate plans for further optimization I imagine keeping up such intense lag during prime time hours. Honestly it seems the only thing that keeps the playercount from rising over 250 is the sheer lag driving people away.

[JJG]

The game is currently completely unplayable at playercounts of about 230 and up. Anything from 180 and up is not a good experience to begin with the amount of lag you get imo.
At really big numbers the game runs at like 0.3 fps. It resembles chess more than anything. Every 2 or 3 seconds you make a turn and see what happens.

[kooarbiter]

I dunno man, turn based CM is fun, we could make it a proper board game and all